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level 2 comes up short

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by montgom626, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    Anyone else feel level 2 chargers are already out of date?
     
  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    For us, yes. They've never been 'in date'. :)

    But Level 2 chargers are essential for Leafs and other short-range BEVs. And also essential for plug-in hybrids (like the Volt) to keep them driving electric miles. People plug those cars in while out shopping. We don't need that. They do.
     
  3. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    The sad part is that many cars on the road today (Volt, pre-2013 Leaf) can't even make full use of Level 2. They can only handle 3kW.
    I think that L2 is fine for certain situations - at home, at work, at a movie theater or ball game. Anywhere that the car will sit for at least 2 hours. But that just means we need many many more of them. That would be great.
     
  4. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    Short of a SC that don't exist in the MidWest, anyway that the current crop of level 2 can be upgraded?
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Not really. Also there is virtually no political will to do so because unless you have a Tesla, level 2 is fine.
     
  6. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    I feel they work very well for those that need them (Leaf, Volt, etc).
    I personally have never needed them. If I did need to travel greater distances, I probably would agree with you.
    And I can't say I am not looking forward to getting some superchargers in the Midwest:)
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Me too. Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma are very short on charging.
     
  8. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    I put a level 2 chargepoint station at my office....

    It won't break any speed records on a Tesla, but it suits my needs just fine and I've made a whole $7 in 3 months!
     
  9. jomo25

    jomo25 P4398

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    L2 is great for the home IMO. Loving having it. Actually I've even dialed mine down to roughly 4 kW, and I'm still fine for the home.
     
  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The problem is, Level II ranges from "fairly useful" to "hopelessly anemic". Mid-power L2 (40A say) is fine for home use. Only the higher power L2 chargers are usable for anything but overnight charging, and unfortunately most of the deployed chargers are only 30A or less.

    Of course some day I'll get to use a Supercharger.
     
  11. GSP

    GSP Member

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    L2 is perfect for home use. 30-40 Amps should work well for anyone.

    I would like to see L2 charging stations at more hotels and resorts as well.

    GSP
     
  12. jomo25

    jomo25 P4398

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    I find this topic a bit presumptuous. Esp. considering a good 90% (my number) of the MS buyers are probably relying on L2 almost, if not completely exclusively. And are fine with it.
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    #13 Lloyd, Apr 25, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
    Remember that level 2 is able to charge up to 80 amps! Don't sell it short so soon! It is as useful as your HPWC at home, it is the government and the equipment manufacturers that determined that 30 amp EVSE's were sufficient. It is up to Tesla owners to demand the higher power and change the lower power of level 2 charging that is being presented to us!

    Your HPWC is technically a Level 2 EVSE as well!!
     
  14. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Without Tesla, the J1772 AC standard would have been stuck at 40 amps (9.6kW) max. It was Tesla that lobbied for an 70 amp (16.8kW) extension of the standard (mainly for the Roadster) and now the standard goes up to 80 amps (19.6kW) max.
    http://www.saxton.org/tom_saxton/2010/09/j1772-roadster-charging.html

    19.6kW is still pretty useful for level 2. Going any higher probably doesn't make sense in terms of using AC because you would need a very powerful onboard charger (which takes up space and costs more money), unless you go with 3-phase (which is not applicable in the US so far).
     
  15. dadaleus

    dadaleus 4GETOIL P85#S70,FdrX,S85D

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  16. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    I agree. for overnight use, great to use a L2. For a MS, better than nothing when going cross country. Better than nothing, but not by much unless you stay overnight.
     
  17. toto_48313

    toto_48313 CAN P #5

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    L2 is just fine, and is probably better for the long term life of the pack.
     
  18. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    L2 points are fine at places like hotels, hospitals, colleges, and places of employment where the EV will be parked for 3+ hours. For Model S drivers, though, the L2 points at Walgreens, Krogers, etc. don't provide much utility. I've talked to Volt drivers, though, who really appreciate these L2 points, as they can get enough charge to avoid burning some gas on the way home.

    It's going to be interesting to see whether 70A-80A J1772 starts spreading (as it has in Canada and the West Coast) or whether SuperChargers overtake them. I only bought a single charger in my MS, so you can tell which way I think that question is going to resolve.
     
  19. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    The 70A-80A J1772 would allow everyone to have their cake and eat it to. As a MS owner, it would meet my needs and not stop the Volts, Leafs from using it too. At 70-80 amps, I can hook up and be gone in an hour or two. Make space for anyone in need of a charge.
     
  20. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    L2 as a standard seems bogus from the start. Electrical contractor offers an "L2 EVSE install" to the customer that sounds all warm & fuzzy but then buries dinky wiring that can only deliver 6kw, or maybe 6kw(x2) for a twin unit. And the expensive units are 6kw max. Multi-thousand dollar units that can't supply 12kw when only one car is charging. Hello Schneider Electric!!?

    To upgrade requires digging up and replacing everything. To qualify as L2 should cover the whole standard. L2 standard is just too broad. Too much weasel room, no eye on the future. But what else is new??
    --
     

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