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Leveraging "Time of Use" Rates

Discussion in 'California' started by RE Insider, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Anyone confused on which (SDG&E/SCE/PG&E) rate structure will benefit you the most? There is a lot of confusion out there. If you own a Tesla AND a Solar PV system, you should be leveraging your electric companies “time of use” rates to your advantage – if you aren’t, you’re paying to much. Having been in the renewable energy consulting business for seven years, I’d be more than happy to identify which rate structure will benefit you the most at no charge… Screenshot 2017-07-03 07.39.34.png
     

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  2. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Yup. Running whole house TOU with two EVs and soon PW2. PW2 was more "just because" than saving money now. Though, I can now tap into Super Off-Peak during peak hours by charging the PW2 during Super Off-Peak hours rather than off the solar.
     
  3. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello Dennis - You sound like a pretty smart guy! Are you with Southern California Edison or SDG&E. Which time of use (TOU) rate structure are you on?
     
  4. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    SCE. I'm now on TOU-D-A with Net Metering on our PV.
     
  5. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello Dennis - Sounds like you are good to go and once your PowerWall is installed you'll be able to leverage this rate even further! Well done my Friend!
     
  6. kev1n

    kev1n Member

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    why would you ever need a powerwall in CA unless youre trying to go off grid which doesnt look like it. i cant find a scenario where it makes sense to get one unless you want to prep for a blackout
     
  7. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    The last part. I got it to have power instead of a generator. I don't want to burn fossil fuel in case of a disruption from utility supply.

    With Net Metering, there is no financial motivation to have a Powerwall. However, the backup capabilities is interesting. Even if it is expensive. With SGIP, it's at least helpful to make it less expensive.
     
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  8. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello Kevin - Thanks for your question! Here's my thoughts on the matter. California has some of the highest electric rates in the Country. If you live in California and currently buying electricity from SCE, PG&E or SDG&E the SGIP rebates are very lucruative. Furthermore, folks with Solar PV systems may benefit from the 30% Federal tax credit depending on their “tax appetite”.


    Not only will the Tesla Powerwall (2.0) provide 30 amps of backup power to a critical load panel during a grid failure, but the (upgradable) software will allow Solar PV homeowners to charge the PowerWall with their solar pv during “off-peak” periods and discharge energy to offset their homes energy needs during “on-peak” periods. The net result of using this stored energy rather than buying it from your electric utility provider at peak periods will further reduce annual “true-up” electric bills.


    What are your thoughts on this topic?
     
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  9. kev1n

    kev1n Member

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    thought so, doesnt otherwise make sense financially speaking
     
  10. kev1n

    kev1n Member

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    i have solar, still wouldnt get a powerwall to be honest. even with 30% tax incentives, thats still 70% you are paying for something you dont need. the only benefit i see is having power during a blackout. at least for my situation in my neighborhood in san francisco, there are barely any blackouts, maybe once in a few years and it generally comes back up within an hour or 2.

    if you own an EV, you are already charging off peak, no point of charging your powerwall offpeak if you are generating during the day and using that instead. it just doesnt make sense financially with net metering in place.
     
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  11. emchen

    emchen Member

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    Hi Insider,

    My household of 7 has two Teslas and a photovoltaic system of 11kW. Last two months of summer we used approximately 1600 kWh and 3000 kWh, respectively. We're with SCE and are on the TOU-D-B Plan. Would I benefit from any changes?
     
  12. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    Man, with 35-50 days each summer with 100-degrees plus (and overnight "lows" of 76-80) I just cannot imagine a scenario where TOU makes economic sense. We have NEM with our 4,500-watt PV system, and our annual true-up this past cycle was $122.47. This figure uses the "energy charge" metric as it is more than the charge taking into account the monthly ten-dollars and change connection fee less electricity purchased amount. I think we do a pretty good job using the tiered rates. PG&E's website said that we are using our most advantageous rate--that the TOU rate would have resulted in about $45 more per year.

    I thought about having EV TOU separate from the house, but that would require a costly addition to our existing breaker box, separate meter, and it would take years and years to break even.
     
  13. Ampster

    Ampster Member

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    Someone posted earlier about a similar offer. His involved data analytics and I tried to download my load data for him. Unfortunately for SCE customers there is a glitch in their system that prevents NEM customers from downloading usage data. It may not apply to all NEM customers but if a customer has one period with a negative number then the program can't output the data. Therefore as a NEM customer I can not utilize
    SCEs online rate comparison tool. I did a quick spreadsheet model and guessed at which TOU rate was more beneficial. If you have a model that works with SCE data (or lack thereof) I would be all ears.
     
  14. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    I'm in Fresno and have the PG&E EV-A plan with TOU and NEM 1.0. Time of use actually plays in my favor, the times my solar panels are most productive are the times they have to buy my excess production at the highest rate. Yes I use more electricity during the peak of a hot day, but if I'm producing more than I'm using at that time, they pay me through the nose for it. I was out of town all last week and PG&E bought all that peak generation power at sky high rates during the day while I was gone using no power. I think they paid me $20/day that week.
     
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  15. Ampster

    Ampster Member

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    Everyone's circumstance is different. I am on NEM but I have low tolerance for risk. I see my hybrid battery system giving me a hedge against future TOU period shifts. The payback from arbitrage for me was 15 years. The unknown benefit came this year when we had two 8 hour power outages. We had gone 3 years with no outages.
     
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  16. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello Kevin - Thanks for your reply! So you have Solar, that's great so you qualify for the 30% Federal Tax Credit. Living in San Fransico, is it PG&E that is your electric provider? If so, are you factoring in the $4,600 (Step 2) SGIP rebate that still exsists in PG&E territory?. The Tesla Powerwall will also allow you "arbitrage" - meaning you can charge your PowerWall up during off peak periods (from your PV system) and discharge the energy daily during peak loads offsetting reducing your monthly electric bill as much as $90/month. Are you currently on a "time of use" rate struture - If so, what structure TOU are you currently on (ETOU-A or ETOU-B)? What is your current 12-month "true-up bill with PG&E?

    Here to help - even the non-beleivers...
     
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  17. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello Emchen - Hello Neighbor! I'm pretty sure that you should be on Edison's TOU-D (Option A) rate structure. I helped a past client with the same circumstances and helped save his Family over $1,299 a year by switching to the correct TOU rate structure. I'd be more than happy to run your numbers through my "Energy Toolbase" software tool and accurately predict your savings (at no charge). I've recently engage with my Client again and introduced him to the Tesla Powerwall which should "zero-out" his bill, provide him battery backup and only cost him 32 cents on the dollar for his INSTALLED Powerwall after the 30% Federal Tax Credit and the (Step 2) lavish rebates.

    Here to help!

    Screenshot 2017-07-21 00.03.48.png
     
  18. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello CPA - Thanks for you email! Every situation is different, but being that you already have PV and (I'm assuming) a Tesla I think you would be surprised what the correct Time of Use would do for you. It soulds like your annual true up is pretty low, but I bet I can help drive your costs even lower wheres you'll be creating additional credits or allowing you to live more comfortably. I'd be more than happy to run you a quick rate analysis at no charge.

    Here to help...
     
  19. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    The EV Submeter Pilot was an inexpensive way to be able to charge your car with Off-Peak power without putting your whole house on TOU. I would talk to ChargePoint to see if you are eligible. Last I heard, they had $400 off their charging station if you enrolled.
     
  20. RE Insider

    RE Insider Member

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    Hello Ampster - I'm using Energy Toolbase in conjuntion with UtilityAPI which I pay in access of $200/month but it helps me help others and allows me have the best tools at my disposal. I'd be more than happy to give it a shot at no charge. Please email me @ [email protected] and mention "TESLA - Leveraging "Time of Use" Rates in the subject line...

    THIS OFFER IS OPEN TO ANYONE IN THIS CALIFORNIA TESLA FORUM THAT HAS SCE, PG&E & SDG&E AS A UTILITY PROVIDER.

    Best regards,


    -KEITH
     

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