Leveraging "Time of Use" Rates

[RE Insider]

I'm in Fresno and have the PG&E EV-A plan with TOU and NEM 1.0. Time of use actually plays in my favor, the times my solar panels are most productive are the times they have to buy my excess production at the highest rate. Yes I use more electricity during the peak of a hot day, but if I'm producing more than I'm using at that time, they pay me through the nose for it. I was out of town all last week and PG&E bought all that peak generation power at sky high rates during the day while I was gone using no power. I think they paid me $20/day that week.

EyeSurgeon - It sounds like you have things dialed in! What are your thoughts about the TESLA PowerWall? What Value do you put on 'Battery Backup"?, are you aware that your PV will be down if the grid goes down? The TESLA Powerwall solves these traditional issues. The "Step 2" rebates in PG&E are still in effect and worth $4,600 + the 30% Federal Tax Credit. For at least the next couple of weeks, if you have any interest in getting a TESLA Powerwall (or 2) for 32 cents on the dollar. The upgradable software will also allow you the ability to charge the Powerwall during "Off-Peal" Times with your PV System and discharge the (battery) energy to offset your loads during "peak times".

I'd be more than happy to help you leverage your PV system to take further advantage of the PG&E rate structure - drop me an email at [email protected]...

 

[RE Insider]

The EV Submeter Pilot was an inexpensive way to be able to charge your car with Off-Peak power without putting your whole house on TOU. I would talk to ChargePoint to see if you are eligible. Last I heard, they had $400 off their charging station if you enrolled.

Good Point Miimura - I've heard that the cost of installing a second submeter expensive, especially if it's underground - What have you heard? Of the dozens of EV users that I meet with, rarely will I run accross a seperate sub-meter. If I'm missing something, please let me know. My intial thoughts is that the "net installed costs" of the TESLA Powerwall may be less that the installation of the seperate EV submeter and allow you backup power, the ability to keep your PV system "hot" in case of a grid failure and the ability to charge your Powerwall durning off-peak times and discharge them during peak times to offset your consumption.

Interested in your feedback...

 

[RE Insider]

Anyone confused on which (SDG&E/SCE/PG&E) rate structure will benefit you the most? There is a lot of confusion out there. If you own a Tesla AND a Solar PV system, you should be leveraging your electric companies “time of use” rates to your advantage – if you aren’t, you’re paying to much. Having been in the renewable energy consulting business for seven years, I’d be more than happy to identify which rate structure will benefit you the most at no charge…View attachment 236513

Anyone confused on which (SDG&E/SCE/PG&E) rate structure will benefit you the most? There is a lot of confusion out there. If you own a Tesla AND a Solar PV system, you should be leveraging your electric companies “time of use” rates to your advantage – if you aren’t, you’re paying to much. Having been in the renewable energy consulting business for seven years, I’d be more than happy to identify which rate structure will benefit you the most at no charge…View attachment 236513

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Anyone confused on which (SDG&E/SCE/PG&E) rate structure will benefit you the most? There is a lot of confusion out there. If you own a Tesla AND a Solar PV system, you should be leveraging your electric companies “time of use” rates to your advantage – if you aren’t, you’re paying to much. Having been in the renewable energy consulting business for seven years, I’d be more than happy to identify which rate structure will benefit you the most at no charge…View attachment 236513

TESLA & PV OWNERS- Here's a "real world" example of the savings that can be leveraged by getting on the appropriate "Time of Use" Rate. The TESLA PowerWall will only compound the savings..

If you'd like a free "rate analysis" reach out to me at [email protected] and include the subject line, "Leveraging "Time of Use" Rates and I'll help dial you in with the most appropriate rate plan at no charge...

-Keith Graves
-805-218-7383

 

[Ampster]

I'm using Energy Toolbase in conjuntion with UtilityAPI which I pay in access of $200/month but it helps me help others and allows me have the best tools at my disposal.

Just answer the question that you have been able to download data from SCE for a customer on NEM with intervals that have negative integers? I jumped through a bunch of hoops with a previous poster to no avail.

 

[Ampster]

- I've heard that the cost of installing a second submeter expensive, especially if it's underground -

The poster was referring to the EV sub metering pilot in California which cost $45. The expensive part for me on that pilot was that any credit I had on the main meter did not offset the usage on the submeter.

 

[Ampster]

The upgradable software will also allow you the ability to charge the Powerwall during "Off-Peal" Times with your PV System and discharge the (battery) energy to offset your loads during "peak times".

It should be noted that one might not be eligible for the ITC on a Powerwall if the battery is not being charged by solar.

 

[RE Insider]

Just answer the question that you have been able to download data from SCE for a customer on NEM with intervals that have negative integers? I jumped through a bunch of hoops with a previous poster to no avail.

Hello Ampster - Sorry didn't mean to dodge your question. Yes, I'm able to download data from SCE for ratepayers on NEM with intervals that have negative integers - here's an example of the output once the download of the intraval data comes through...

Here's an example of a friend that I helped out that was one the WRONG TOU-Rate Structure - His next annual "true-up" bill should drop from $596 to just $91...

 

[kev1n]

Hello Kevin - Thanks for your reply! So you have Solar, that's great so you qualify for the 30% Federal Tax Credit. Living in San Fransico, is it PG&E that is your electric provider? If so, are you factoring in the $4,600 (Step 2) SGIP rebate that still exsists in PG&E territory?. The Tesla Powerwall will also allow you "arbitrage" - meaning you can charge your PowerWall up during off peak periods (from your PV system) and discharge the energy daily during peak loads offsetting reducing your monthly electric bill as much as $90/month. Are you currently on a "time of use" rate struture - If so, what structure TOU are you currently on (ETOU-A or ETOU-B)? What is your current 12-month "true-up bill with PG&E?

Here to help - even the non-beleivers...

yes we have PG&E EV-A. i got a quote from swell for ~$12k before any incentives, ended up being around ~$4k after incentives/fed tax credit. i did do the calculation for a powerwall before i went with solar, the payback would be about 11years, if you count in solar, it would be even longer than that and my break even with going solar is 8years so it didnt make sense to add a powerwall.

 

[bakerboy]

Hello Insider,

We recently installed a 21 panel 7.3kw system and was "tiurned on" June 27th, we were on the TOU-D-B plan, but my PV installer asked me to switch to the TOU-D-T rate, he said it would be more advantages for our needs. I know everyone's situation is different, what info would you need to see if in fact switching to the "T" rate is/was better for us.

Thanks!

 

[miimura]

Good Point Miimura - I've heard that the cost of installing a second submeter expensive, especially if it's underground - What have you heard? Of the dozens of EV users that I meet with, rarely will I run accross a seperate sub-meter. If I'm missing something, please let me know. My intial thoughts is that the "net installed costs" of the TESLA Powerwall may be less that the installation of the seperate EV submeter and allow you backup power, the ability to keep your PV system "hot" in case of a grid failure and the ability to charge your Powerwall durning off-peak times and discharge them during peak times to offset your consumption.

Interested in your feedback...

A second meter at the utility Point of Entry is expensive. The sub-metering pilot is a program coordinated by the PUC with the 3 IOUs to allow a metering device to be installed and billed on EV-B rate (or equivalent) and having the utility subtract that usage from the main meter's billing. That is why it is cost effective. You're not actually doing anything to your utility service, you're just installing a device to meter an EVSE, or just an EVSE with revenue grade metering built in.

 

[miimura]

yes we have PG&E EV-A. i got a quote from swell for ~$12k before any incentives, ended up being around ~$4k after incentives/fed tax credit. i did do the calculation for a powerwall before i went with solar, the payback would be about 11years, if you count in solar, it would be even longer than that and my break even with going solar is 8years so it didnt make sense to add a powerwall.

I was planning to install a natural gas backup generator for about $3,000 all-in, so under $4,500 net for a Powerwall looks pretty good to me given that I can reduce my annual true-up by at least $400 per year by eliminating Peak period usage.

 

[RE Insider]

Hello Insider,

We recently installed a 21 panel 7.3kw system and was "tiurned on" June 27th, we were on the TOU-D-B plan, but my PV installer asked me to switch to the TOU-D-T rate, he said it would be more advantages for our needs. I know everyone's situation is different, what info would you need to see if in fact switching to the "T" rate is/was better for us.

Thanks!

Hello BakerBoy - Sounds like you have a nice setup. I'm almost certain that TOU-D-A will be more advantageous. I have a couple of questions. What is the % of estimated annual production versus your annual consumption? Also which direction are your panels facing. Feel free to email me directly - [email protected]

 

[RE Insider]

I was planning to install a natural gas backup generator for about $3,000 all-in, so under $4,500 net for a Powerwall looks pretty good to me given that I can reduce my annual true-up by at least $400 per year by eliminating Peak period usage.

I agree with you Miimura! Email me at keith@keithgraves if your serious about locking in the "step 2" rebate - I'm being told that it will only last for another week or two...

 

[thimel]

Hello RE insider,
You repeatedly suggest that one can use a powerwall to save money by charging it with solar at a non peak time and discharging it at peak rates. I have solar, a Tesla and am on the PGE EV-A TOU plan. My low rates are between 11 PM and 7 AM. It is dark during that time. My solar doesn't produce anything. I could charge a powerwall at partial peak times in the summer but rates are much higher than the off peak. If I charge at off peak then I can't get the SGIP rebate.
So I don't see how one can get the rebate and still make money on arbitrage.

 

[RE Insider]

Hello RE insider,
You repeatedly suggest that one can use a powerwall to save money by charging it with solar at a non peak time and discharging it at peak rates. I have solar, a Tesla and am on the PGE EV-A TOU plan. My low rates are between 11 PM and 7 AM. It is dark during that time. My solar doesn't produce anything. I could charge a powerwall at partial peak times in the summer but rates are much higher than the off peak. If I charge at off peak then I can't get the SGIP rebate.
So I don't see how one can get the rebate and still make money on arbitrage.

Hello - Correction "Partial Peak" -
Sounds like your currently leveraging the EV-A which will be capped out at 60,000 users (nice). I’m sure you know this already, but as a reminder make sure to charge your Tesla after Midnight and before 7:00 am. Avoid using energy between 2:00pm & 9:00pm.

Telsa’s Powerwall will allow you to charge your batteries up from your PV during Partial Peak and fully discharge the batteries during On Peak Times (buy low – sell high). You’ll earn 12 cents (winter) and 20 cents (summer) per kWh if you program this correctly.

 

[brucet999]

Anyone confused on which (SDG&E/SCE/PG&E) rate structure will benefit you the most? There is a lot of confusion out there. If you own a Tesla AND a Solar PV system, you should be leveraging your electric companies “time of use” rates to your advantage – if you aren’t, you’re paying to much. Having been in the renewable energy consulting business for seven years, I’d be more than happy to identify which rate structure will benefit you the most at no charge…View attachment 236513

Thank you @RE Insider, I have been looking at SCE rates and found TOU-D-T far too confusing.

I am presently on TOU-D-A and planning to install rooftop PV to zero out out our 6400kWh annual usage, broken down as follows:
Monthly average 534kWh; Super Off Peak = 284kWh Off Peak = 178kWh Peak = 72kWh
Percentages Super Off Peak = 53.2% Off Peak = 33.3% Peak = 13.5%

Solar contractors are proposing approximately 4.3 to 4.5 kW nameplate systems. The house has sufficient room for 18 panels on either 180º or 270º 22º (5:12) slope roof surfaces, invisible from the street and with no shading. Being 2 miles from the ocean, we have annual average high temp of 68ºF, so we are basically in PTC conditions.

Most providers have proposed using the 180º roof surfaces and staying with TOU-D-A. (Solar City amazingly proposed 22 panels on 090º!)

One proposal suggests using the 270º roof and changing to TOU-D-T in order to have peak rates from noon to 6pm instead of 2pm to 8pm; that way all PV production would be delivered at peak rates. He argues that even while receiving only 88% of south irradiance, the higher dollar value of peak rates more than compensates, yielding 11.4% more $ value of NEM than the same size system on a south roof. Does that strategy sound right to you?

 

[RE Insider]

Hello Bruce - You're right, most people are very confused with the new TOU rates + what NEM 2.0 really means. Heck 95% of the Solar Companies aren't even using true "intraval" (15 minute) data - they are using regional algorithms rather than data that can be pulled from the utility servers quickly and securely. Everyone uses energy differently, specially in coastal climates. I'm using state of the art sofware that takes any guessing out of the equation. I'd be more than happy to provide you a second opinion on your exact situation with every rate combination. Please email me at [email protected] and I'll be your unbased-fact based client advocate.

Here's the data I recieve before putting together proposals - there is no guess work, it's all based on actual data...

 

[Ampster]

Yes, I'm able to download data from SCE for ratepayers on NEM with intervals that have negative integers

Thanks, I will send you the email.

 

[emchen]

Thank you, @RE Insider. SCE website states that if you use more than 700 kWh per month (8400 kWh per year), then TOU-D-B is the plan most likely to benefit you. Is it the fact that I have PV that makes their statement wrong?

 

[RE Insider]

Thank you, @RE Insider. SCE website states that if you use more than 700 kWh per month (8400 kWh per year), then TOU-D-B is the plan most likely to benefit you. Is it the fact that I have PV that makes their statement wrong?

Hello Emchen - Thanks for your post! I don't care much for "blanket statements" by Utility companies. Keep in mind that if you have Solar PV and/or an EV your still in the minority. Edison's assumptions no longer apply. I like dealing with "real" numbers based on your individual situation. I recieved your email, so expect a response on next steps...