Leviton 14-50 Works, Bryant 14-50 Doesn't - Same Wiring

[RIPmyAMG]

Question for you all. Kinda at my wits end with this one, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I have had the issue of my Tesla charger dropping down to 16 amps from 32 amps after 30 minutes due to high outlet temperature. Turns out the usual culprit is the crappy Home Depot special Leviton 14-50 outlets that get installed. They're weak, aluminum and copper, and can't handle sustained 240V 32 amps for hours on end.

I decided to upgrade to the highly recommended industrial grade Bryant 14-50. It's obviously of tremendously higher quality, copper everything.



The one thing is... I can't get my Tesla charger to work with it. I get an instant red light on the T of the Tesla mobile charger. When I plug my multimeter into the left and right terminals, I get 230V immediately.



I had to change the box to get the new 14-50 to fit, and thought perhaps I had a grounding issue.

According to the Tesla Mobile Charger manual, no green lights and 2 red flashes = Ground Loss.

To rule things out, I decided to just reinstall the crap Leviton.

Low and behold, boom. All green and all good on the Tesla charger.

What could be wrong here?

Here's my wiring on the new Bryant unit:

And here are the terminals on the old crappy Leviton:

 

[ucmndd]

Test each hot leg to ground on the new outlet. What do you get?

 

[RIPmyAMG]

Test each hot leg to ground on the new outlet. What do you get?

Hot 1 to ground (XXX - Black) 118.1V
Hot 2 to ground (YYY - Red) 119V
Neutral to ground - 0V

 

[jcanoe]

Are you using a mini torque wrench when tightening the connections on the Bryant14-50 receptacle to ensure the correct torque? It is possible the Bryant receptacle is defective; return it and get another.

Also, I believe you could use a smaller diameter wire for the ground wire connection to the box. Perhaps the ground fault is related to trying to clamp the two large ground wires.

Just to confirm part numbers:

Hubbell 9459a
Bryant 9450fr
Cooper 5754n

Hubbell cover plate to fit the Hubbell or Bryant receptacle - SS701

Leviton 279-S00 (Should not be used for EV charging.)

 

[RIPmyAMG]

Are you using a mini torque wrench when tightening the connections on the Bryant14-50 receptacle to ensure the correct torque? It is possible the Bryant receptacle is defective; return it and get another.

Just to confirm part numbers:

Hubbell 9459a
Bryant 9450fr
Cooper 5754n

Hubbell cover plate to fit the Hubbell or Bryant receptacle - SS701

Leviton 279-S00 (Should not be used for EV charging.)

I’m not using the torque wrench. Is it that sensitive? I was just using my Allen wrench and torquing it to “hand tight” spec.

I had a response on Reddit saying that someone bought the same Bryant, had the same issue. Ground issue, Leviton reinstalled and everything was all good. They ordered the Hubbell, and all was well.

I ended up ordering a Hubbell as both will be easy to return to Amazon.

I ordered the Hubbell 9450A.

I currently am having trouble with the Bryant 9450FR.

I did get that faceplate, but since I’m installing in an exposed box, I had to get creative. It’s not pretty, but it gets the job done. I actually found an exposed faceplate that will fit the larger diameter receptacle, so I ordered that and will be trying that out too.

Here’s the result of using a punch tool, and various drill bits. If I don’t end up going with the exposed faceplate I’ll just cut the faceplate down to remove the exposed edges.

 

[jcanoe]

I’m not using the torque wrench. Is it that sensitive?

Yes; An experienced electrician would be able to properly tighten the connections by feel. Otherwise a mini torque wrench is recommended.

I believe you could use a smaller diameter wire for the ground wire connection to the box. Perhaps the ground fault is related to trying to clamp the two large ground wires.

The edges of the larger size face plate are not an issue (only cosmetic.) You can plug the unused screw holes in the face plate with grommets.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

Yes; An experienced electrician would be able to properly tighten the connections by feel. Otherwise a mini torque wrench is recommended.

I believe you could use a smaller diameter wire for the ground wire connection to the box. Perhaps the ground fault is related to trying to clamp the two large ground wires.

The edges of the larger size face plate are not an issue (only cosmetic.) You can plug the unused screw holes in the face plate with grommets.

Ended up finding an in-lb torque wrench on Amazon, which is something I need in the toolbox anyways.

The plan for tomorrow is to attempt another pig tail, and when the torque wrench arrives, run the 75in-lb’s they spec.

If still no dice, I’ll assume the Bryant is bad, and by that point the Hubbell unit will have arrived.

That will help me rule out whether I’m having wiring issues, or if it’s just the Bryant.

If all else fails, I’ll throw in the towel and stick to my wimpy 18 amps that I feel comfortable throwing on the Leviton.

 

[MacO512]

I wouldn't have two grounds wired to the recepticle. Should be combined earlier such as a wire nut.

75 in lb is pretty freaking tight, I would call it much tighter than hand tight. That's why a torque wrench or torque screwdriver.is important. Generally in my experience novice and homeowners greatly under torque connections.

That box, faceplate, additional holes doesn't look professional. Not sure.that would pass inspection. I'd have probably replaced with a larger box or adapter plate

Can't tell, but this box might violate box fill spec. If the recepticle doesn't have room on all sides something could be shorting up against the sides of the metal box. Would make sense a larger recepticle had this problem and a smaller one does not.

The issues could be a defective recepticle, however seeing the photos that don't look clean or professional would have me suspicious there is a loose connection or short elsewhere in the system.

 

[Rocky_H]

Can't tell, but this box might violate box fill spec. If the recepticle doesn't have room on all sides something could be shorting up against the sides of the metal box. Would make sense a larger recepticle had this problem and a smaller one does not.

Could be combination related to that. That's a kind of loose connection with just a wire nut connecting the grounds. Perhaps with the bigger outlet being jammed into the small box, it's pressing things more and pushes or twists that wire nut connection so it's pulling apart some.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

I wouldn't have two grounds wired to the recepticle. Should be combined earlier such as a wire nut.

75 in lb is pretty freaking tight, I would call it much tighter than hand tight. That's why a torque wrench or torque screwdriver.is important. Generally in my experience novice and homeowners greatly under torque connections.

That box, faceplate, additional holes doesn't look professional. Not sure.that would pass inspection. I'd have probably replaced with a larger box or adapter plate

Can't tell, but this box might violate box fill spec. If the recepticle doesn't have room on all sides something could be shorting up against the sides of the metal box. Would make sense a larger recepticle had this problem and a smaller one does not.

The issues could be a defective recepticle, however seeing the photos that don't look clean or professional would have me suspicious there is a loose connection or short elsewhere in the system.

On all of this today. Grabbed some new wire and will be creating a pigtail with leads coming straight out that go directly to the box, and directly to the terminal. One lead to the ground terminal of the receptacle, no longer two jammed into one (never liked that on the initial install anyway, no idea who was hired to do it).

The faceplate really is just aesthetically displeasing IMO, it has no bearing on the issue in my opinion, just an eyesore. Regardless I sourced a different one after finally finding an exposed version that fits that diameter receptacle face.

I can't say for sure if it's up to code, but the receptacle is absolutely not contacting and shorting against the sides of the box. In fact when I was troubleshooting last night, I had the receptacle hanging out of the box so I could test the hot to ground's with my multimeter. I also had it hanging loose with the mobile connector connected after I made a change to the ground wiring, as soon as the breakers were turned on, so that I could if it would fire. It did not.

The breakers are right next to the box, so it's not like I'm messing with it while it's hot. Easy enough to just reach over and kill power to it before playing with it further. And I've done enough 240V work that I'm always testing the leads even after I know for a fact that I killed the breakers anyway.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

Could be combination related to that. That's a kind of loose connection with just a wire nut connecting the grounds. Perhaps with the bigger outlet being jammed into the small box, it's pressing things more and pushes or twists that wire nut connection so it's pulling apart some.

I'm going to be rebuilding the ground connection today, and basically create a single stranded together wire and build a rock solid ground connection. If this still fails, I'm more inclined to think it's a faulty receptacle.

On reddit, so far 4 people have reported having the exact same fault with this Bryant version, and after getting in the Hubbell version, zero ground fault issues and mobile charger fired right up.

Best case my new rock solid ground pigtail and connections will work, worst case the Hubbell will get here tomorrow and I'll already have a beautiful ground set up.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm more inclined to think it's a faulty receptacle.

I'm also curious if you test for continuity (just high resistance or low resistance) on various parts of it with the receptacle not hooked up to anything. Does each slot in the front actually connect through to the screw terminal on the back that it is supposed to be connected to? If you test from neutral to ground, they should not be connected in the receptacle, etc. I think I am leaning toward this, that maybe there is a build defect, and the ground pin slot is somehow not connected to the ground screw terminal on the back.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

I'm also curious if you test for continuity (just high resistance or low resistance) on various parts of it with the receptacle not hooked up to anything. Does each slot in the front actually connect through to the screw terminal on the back that it is supposed to be connected to? If you test from neutral to ground, they should not be connected in the receptacle, etc. I think I am leaning toward this, that maybe there is a build defect, and the ground pin slot is somehow not connected to the ground screw terminal on the back.

I’m not sure if I fully understand your question, but I’ll answer it to what I think you’re asking. The screws which are secured to the wire do indeed react to the multimeter, so I can check voltage via touching the ground screw on the terminal to the hot screw on the respective terminal.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

Update:
Made a proper ground this time. Same AWG wire all throughout. Found a trick on YouTube to make excellent connections, so I did just that... wrap the freshly stripped wires together at the end of the insulation with electrical tape to get them wrapped up with all the exposed copper leads tightly bound together, then take linesman's pliers and twist and the strands together gradually and slowly, until they've basically made a single large stranded wire. Then compress at the base, and clip the top edge to even the wire out.

Then wire nut it together.

Got my in-lb torque wrench in today, and accurately torqued each lug down to 75 in-lb's as per spec by Bryant/Hubbell.

Still have the grounding error on the Bryant, and still have a happily working Leviton.

Hubbell unit comes in tomorrow, which will be a quick swap. With the count of people who had issues with the Bryant on my reddit thread now up to 5, I'm hopeful it's just a bad unit and the Hubbell will fire up once swapped out.

Please ignore all the extra wire and the hanging receptacle, at this point I'm just wiring it like it's on a test bench. I would obviously clean this up a lot before finalizing the installation. Just showing the new ground pigtail.

 

[FatherTo1]

That's interesting. I also had to replace my Leviton this past Summer. I bought both Bryant and Hubbell but ultimately installed the Hubbell. I never even tried the Bryant so don't know if I would've encountered an issue. The Hubbell has been great and operates 10 degrees (Fahrenheit) cooler than the Leviton.

 

[boingolover]

Bryant and Hubbel are the made by the same company? I do have to wonder if there might be some counterfeits floating around though. I bought a Bryant from Grainger and it's been rock solid.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

Bryant and Hubbel are the made by the same company? I do have to wonder if there might be some counterfeits floating around though. I bought a Bryant from Grainger and it's been rock solid.

Yes, in fact if you go to the "Bryant" website, it's hosted on Hubbell.com.

I too wonder if that's the case, seeing as there have been 5 reports of faulty Bryant units from my reddit thread, but it just seems odd to counterfeit a not super common component. It's not like they are selling these things by the tens of thousands, and regardless if this unit is a fake, it's an extremely well made fake.

Regardless, it seems people have been having great success with Hubbell units, and hit or miss with the Bryant's.

Many have the exact same issue as me. Bryant will give a ground error, Leviton goes back in to troubleshoot and fire's right back up. Hubbell unit arrives, and fires up without any issues.

Either way everything is coming from Amazon so it's easy enough to return.

Everything wiring wise looks right to me and to all the people on stack exchange and reddit, so if the Hubbell doesn't work, I'll return both the Bryant and Hubbell and get a Hubbell straight from Grainger, and if that still doesn't work then I guess I'll just live with my Leviton, or have a professional electrician come out and install a Home Charger.

Will keep this thread updated of course, it may be a useful datapoint to anyone wanting to upgrade from a Leviton.

 

[Rocky_H]

I’m not sure if I fully understand your question, but I’ll answer it to what I think you’re asking. The screws which are secured to the wire do indeed react to the multimeter, so I can check voltage via touching the ground screw on the terminal to the hot screw on the respective terminal.

No, that's not what I was saying. You're describing still ONLY testing things from the screw terminals at the back.

Does each slot in the front actually connect through to the screw terminal on the back that it is supposed to be connected to?

The thing reporting the problem is the Tesla cable that is plugged into the slots on the FRONT of the outlet. I am wondering if the ground pin slot on the front is disconnected somehow inside the outlet so that it never actually touches where the ground screw is on the back of the outlet that attaches to the wire. So if you use your multimeter to probe from the ground slot of the front to the ground screw on the back, does it show as a short (correct) or as high impedance (broken)?

 

[davewill]

Might also be useful to check for an internal short between the ground and neutral while the outlet is not connected. That could cause all sorts of strange behavior.

 

[RIPmyAMG]

No, that's not what I was saying. You're describing still ONLY testing things from the screw terminals at the back.

The thing reporting the problem is the Tesla cable that is plugged into the slots on the FRONT of the outlet. I am wondering if the ground pin slot on the front is disconnected somehow inside the outlet so that it never actually touches where the ground screw is on the back of the outlet that attaches to the wire. So if you use your multimeter to probe from the ground slot of the front to the ground screw on the back, does it show as a short (correct) or as high impedance (broken)?

Oh, I did actually test the front prongs on the Tesla Mobile Connector in response to a request from someone on my reddit thread. The hot's to ground and neutral to grounds as well as hots to neutrals all lined up right about the same as testing from the back. The voltage was actually a bit higher on the prong side on the hots to grounds (120v vs 116V) but I didn't think much of that.

We also were considering that the contacts on the receptacle were somehow defective, or some others have reported success doing multiple plug in and unplug cycles and it end up working, as if there's some sort of lubricant or corrosion inhibitor film that needs to be rubbed off first or something.

Didn't end up working for me.

Hubbell should be arriving later today so I'll be throwing that on and seeing what happens.