Lexus all electric

[rincewind]

I drove an IS200 (54 plate) for nearly 14 years, and in my mind I've always said that when Lexus brings out an electric car I would go back to them, due to the slavish attention to detail and build quality. So, when I saw they have finally announced one I was keen to have a look. Then I did, and saw the range. 196 miles. Oh dear. That'll be 150-60 in the real world and somewhat less in the cold world. So, I'll stick with the Tesla for now (unless they make the screen look even more like an 80's video game).

That said, I'll bet the Lexus will be quieter, which is moving way up my priorities list.

 

[Mr H]

I agree, with such a large vehicle i would had thought 280-300 would have been achievable, i guess they have a way to go yet.

 

[Steely]

Charging is a little disappointing...
just goes to show this is aimed at town use not distance.

Method kW Typical location Charging time (empty to full)
Standard three-pin plug 2.3 Home 26 hours
Dedicated home charging point 7.4 Home 9.5 hours
Fast charger 22* Offices, car parks, leisure centres 9.5 hours* (limited to 6.6kW by the vehicle)
Rapid charger 50 Motorway services, near major roads 50 minutes
* Limited by on-board charger, vehicle cannot charge faster.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Charging is a little disappointing...
just goes to show this is aimed at town use not distance.

Method kW Typical location Charging time (empty to full)
Standard three-pin plug 2.3 Home 26 hours
Dedicated home charging point 7.4 Home 9.5 hours
Fast charger 22* Offices, car parks, leisure centres 9.5 hours* (limited to 6.6kW by the vehicle)
Rapid charger 50 Motorway services, near major roads 50 minutes
* Limited by on-board charger, vehicle cannot charge faster.

The first two of those charge related points don't have a lot to do with the car, though, they are limitations inherent in AC charge point maximum rates. For example, taking a 2020 Tesla Model 3 LR for comparison (assuming 0% to 100% charge and 77 kWh battery pack capacity):

Tesla Model 3 LR - Standard three-pin plug 2.3 Home 33.4 hours
Tesla Model 3 LR - Dedicated home charging point 7.4 Home 10.4 hours

The third one (22 kW 3 phase AC) seems an oddball - why should the car charge slower from 3 phase than single phase? The time given implies the same 7.4 kW charge rate as for a 32 A single phase charge point, not a 6.6 kW charge rate, so I rather suspect they may have got their numbers mixed up. A Tesla Model 3 LR, charging from 0% to 100%, on a 22 kW AC charge point would fully charge in about 7 hours (the Model 3 cannot charge at more than 11 kW from 3 phase AC).

The last one, limiting DC rapid charging to 50 kW, seems short sighted, as with the shorter range it seems likely that faster DC charging would be a definite advantage. It also falls way behind pretty much every new EV that's coming to the market right now, even the smaller ones seem capable of around 100 kW DC rapid charging.

Mind you, Toyota have been way behind the curve when it comes to BEV development, having stuck firmly to the hydrogen fuel cell option for years, when everyone else was developing BEVs. I guess they have a lot of catching up to do, which is a shame, as Toyota/Lexus do have a good reputation for build quality and reliability, something that the BEV world could do with an injection of right now.

 

[browellm]

The Japanese EV market is a total mess. Big bets on hydrogen that haven't come in, betting on the wrong charging standard, over-reliance on hybrids and reluctance to innovate.

Years behind the curve.

 

[DJP31]

I drove an IS200 (54 plate) for nearly 14 years, and in my mind I've always said that when Lexus brings out an electric car I would go back to them, due to the slavish attention to detail and build quality.

I had the IS250, then the IS300h and finally the NX300h. Loved all of them apart from the infotainment system that seemed intentionally designed for max owner frustration. I begged them to capitalise on the hybrid knowledge and go full EV, but no hydrogen was the way forward. Such a missed opportunity IMO.

I'm not convinced they'll have anything in the line up to turn my head anytime soon, which is a shame.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The first two of those charge related points don't have a lot to do with the car, though, they are limitations inherent in AC charge point maximum rates. For example, taking a 2020 Tesla Model 3 LR for comparison (assuming 0% to 100% charge and 77 kWh battery pack capacity):

Tesla Model 3 LR - Standard three-pin plug 2.3 Home 33.4 hours
Tesla Model 3 LR - Dedicated home charging point 7.4 Home 10.4 hours

The third one (22 kW 3 phase AC) seems an oddball - why should the car charge slower from 3 phase than single phase? The time given implies the same 7.4 kW charge rate as for a 32 A single phase charge point, not a 6.6 kW charge rate, so I rather suspect they may have got their numbers mixed up. A Tesla Model 3 LR, charging from 0% to 100%, on a 22 kW AC charge point would fully charge in about 7 hours (the Model 3 cannot charge at more than 11 kW from 3 phase AC).

Car is 6.6kW.
It needs a 32A EVSE to get its max power.

They say a 7.4kW EVSE because you get EVSEs rated at a limited set of amperage. There are 24A EVSEs and 32A EVSEs, but not in between.

7.4kW is 230V x 32A, where 230A is the standard European Voltage, although UK is actually 240V.

The last one, limiting DC rapid charging to 50 kW, seems short sighted, as with the shorter range it seems likely that faster DC charging would be a definite advantage. It also falls way behind pretty much every new EV that's coming to the market right now, even the smaller ones seem capable of around 100 kW DC rapid charging.

Mind you, Toyota have been way behind the curve when it comes to BEV development, having stuck firmly to the hydrogen fuel cell option for years, when everyone else was developing BEVs. I guess they have a lot of catching up to do, which is a shame, as Toyota/Lexus do have a good reputation for build quality and reliability, something that the BEV world could do with an injection of right now.

It's a compliance car with CHAdeMO and there aren't many CHAdeMO chargers that give more than 125A. Probably figured that it's not worth it.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Car is 6.6kW.
It needs a 32A EVSE to get its max power.

They say a 7.4kW EVSE because you get EVSEs rated at a limited set of amperage. There are 24A EVSEs and 32A EVSEs, but not in between.

7.4kW is 230V x 32A, where 230A is the standard European Voltage, although UK is actually 240V.



It's a compliance car with CHAdeMO and there aren't many CHAdeMO chargers that give more than 125A. Probably figured that it's not worth it.

AFAIK, there a no 24 A charge points available, the choice is either 16 A or 32 A with the vast majority of single phase AC points being 32 A. There are a few variable rate charge points available, that can be turned down from 32 A to allow for things like demand limiting, or maximising PV use for charging.

The official UK voltage standard is 230 VAC, +10%, -6%, as defined in the ESQCR. We officially stopped having an LV supply voltage of 240 VAC years ago, when we harmonised with the EU. In practice the voltage is often closer to 240 VAC than 230 VAC, but the allowable range is actually from 216 VAC to 253 VAC.

Having CHAdeMO seems pointless, given that there is a dearth of CHAdeMO chargers here, and getting fewer every day, as pretty much every new rapid DC charger going in is a CCS one. I would guess that it probably is a compliance car, although I thought that Toyota had done a deal for sales in Europe that somehow offset their need to produce compliance BEVs here.

 

[tonyj01]

I had three consecutive Lexuses about 20 years ago, drove about 120,000 miles in them. As you all say, dealer service crushes Tesla, and better than anyone else - if you report a problem they are literally mortified. Maybe they employ acting coaches so the team are all amazed and horriified when there is a problem!!

My best story is that the alloy wheels suffered corrosion on one car. They agreed to replace all four after 30 months or whatever, no quibble whatsoever, my car went in, I got call later at work, from the service manager, to apologise. I asked what's up? He told me, we have ONLY ordered four new wheels; we've realised your spare has been used and that has corroded too. So they ordered a fifth, and a week or two later, collected my car to replace that one too.

Tesla could REALLY learn from them.

Stay safe,


Tony

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I had three consecutive Lexuses about 20 years ago, drove about 120,000 miles in them. As you all say, dealer service crushes Tesla, and better than anyone else - if you report a problem they are literally mortified. Maybe they employ acting coaches so the team are all amazed and horriified when there is a problem!!

My best story is that the alloy wheels suffered corrosion on one car. They agreed to replace all four after 30 months or whatever, no quibble whatsoever, my car went in, I got call later at work, from the service manager, to apologise. I asked what's up? He told me, we have ONLY ordered four new wheels and we've realised your spare has been used and that has corroded too. So they ordered a fifth, and a week or two later, collected my car to replace that one too.

Tesla could REALLY learn from them.

Stay safe,


Tony

Sounds like me experience with the first Prius I bought in 2005. There was a recall to fix something in the steering not long after I'd collected the car. The nearest Toyota dealer to where I was then working collected the car from work, left me a loaner, then returned my car later the same day, with a bottle of champagne and a letter of apology for the inconvenience.

Between 2005 and late 2017 I owned Toyotas, and none had any defects when collected, nor did any of them every need anything other than routine servicing. The exception was that steering recall on the first one, but that was very much a non-event in terms of inconvenience. The snag with this experience is that I expected Tesla to be even better, given that I was buying a much more expensive car. Sadly my experience with buying a new Tesla has been worse than any other new car I've ever bought.

 

[rincewind]

I really, really wish that Tesla had some decent competition. Until that happens, I can't see things changing.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

The Japanese EV market is a total mess. Big bets on hydrogen that haven't come in, betting on the wrong charging standard, over-reliance on hybrids and reluctance to innovate.

Years behind the curve.

Disruptive technology never evolves from within an impacted group. Not my thoughts, just something I picked up listening to several people whose opinions I value (Tony Seba, Kathy Woods are two of them).

Rich