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LG vs. Panasonic vs. Samsung battery race

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Erleichda, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. Erleichda

    Erleichda Member

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    So, reading a ton about the LG/GM Bolt pack battery approach and permanent magnet drive. Lots of great and not so great debates going on about which battery configuration, which drive will win out. Will other manufacturers want the LG battery/drive unit to swap into their vehicles. How this impacts each companies ability to use ZEV credits.

    Panasonic is far and away the leading battery manufacturer. Are they hamstrung by Tesla to the right or wrong approach? Cells as configured by Tesla have been the secret sauce for some time. Is the low cost of LG batteries for Chevy real or negotiated? Is the pack density really that bad?

    I realize we don't yet know what the GF will be making exactly, but I'm beginning to think the winner between the car companies may rely on the battery company for sure.

    Anyone with more insight/knowledge?
     
  2. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    I'd be interested to read what you have been reading... links?
     
  3. Erleichda

    Erleichda Member

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    #3 Erleichda, Sep 14, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  4. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    I can't read Seeking Alpha... too many stupid people.
    Is there somewhere a reasoned, informed discussion of these issues?
     
  5. Erleichda

    Erleichda Member

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    That is so true. I try hard to grit my teeth as I read, but do so just so I'm not totally brainwashed here!
     
  6. Erleichda

    Erleichda Member

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  7. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    For my money, Tesla's battery approach is actually the strongest/smartest of the bunch.

    It's effectively RAID - it can tolerate failure of individual cells with minimal impact of the overall pack, and is able to use more aggressive chemistries as a result, which is how they can get higher energy densities and part of the lower costs.

    This also means they don't need to worry as much about massive investments in quality control and low yield rates, further decreasing costs. Any of the large format packs goes into a limp mode if a cell fails - and a short in a cell will likely mean a fire for them.

    The assembly of small form factor cells also lets them tailor the pack geometry to different applications more easily.

    The obvious downside is packing efficiency - a tesla pack is physically bulkier than a pack with the same amount of plate area made of prismatic cells, especially with the cooling paths between the cells. However, it seems like Tesla made some interesting innovations on this with the P100D if the tidbits we've been given are correct - it'll be very interesting to see one of those packs torn down.
     
  8. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I don't think you're right about redundancy and lack of QC and padding the yield. I don't actually know anything about Tesla's actual procedures, but I would guess that they're aging and binning every cell for performance so that they can put like cells together in a module and put like modules together in a pack. Of course, you can bin cells across a relatively wide range of performance and call them all nominal, but I think the battery pack system works better if the cells are relatively closely matched. Now, when a single cell fails in the field, the redundancy certainly helps a lot.
     

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