Lies about Electric Cars

[Norbert]

Thanx guys! These were my favs and will go a long way in the land of laymen (one of which I am) to help the rEVolution!
1) California's Major Sources of Energy {thx howabout2]}
2) Total Electricity System Power {thx howabout2}
3) How clean is the electricity I use? - Power Profiler | Clean Energy | US EPA {thx stopcrazypp}
4) Greenhouse Gas Emissions for Electric Vehicles {thx stopcrazypp}

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but as far as I can tell, except for (3), none of these sources reflect that CA imports coal power. Made the same error a while ago myself.

 

[Slackjaw]

Don't you (Californians) get to choose your provider? In NJ I bet we're about a century behind CA but we can select from a number of generation options; some are part renewable and a few are 100% renewable. I think we use Green Mountain Energy in our house now. It's marginally more expensive than the default option, and a small effort is needed to switch to it; this is apparently enough to put most people off (the same people who drop all their garbage/recyclabes ten yards from a garbage/recycling can <sigh>).

 

[vfx]

Don't you (Californians) get to choose your provider? In NJ I bet we're about a century behind CA ....

Actually NJ has a lot of great energy legislation. In solar they are a top state.

 

[shark2k]

Actually NJ has a lot of great energy legislation. In solar they are a top state.

2nd only to you guys :biggrin:

-Shark2k

 

[stopcrazypp]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but as far as I can tell, except for (3), none of these sources reflect that CA imports coal power. Made the same error a while ago myself.

#2 does also, it shows how much is imported from northwest and southwest (notice the in-state number is much lower).
http://www.energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity/total_system_power.html

 

[Norbert]

#2 does also, it shows how much is imported from northwest and southwest (notice the in-state number is much lower).
http://www.energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity/total_system_power.html

Are you saying it actually went down from 18.2% in 2008 (your number) to 8.1% in 2009?

(18.2% is already lower than what I expected.)

 

[SByer]

Clicking back through the years, it looks like 2008 was an anomaly, and the coal percentage in CA has been trending down.

 

[howabout2]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but as far as I can tell, except for (3), none of these sources reflect that CA imports coal power. Made the same error a while ago myself.

The second link I posted was the simplified chart DrTaras cited above. But the first link I posted actually did address coal: California Energy Flow (Energy Balances). Take a look at the PDF linked in there. Here is a direct link.

Look at how tiny the "136 Imported Coal" line is and the tiny "24" that connects that to the "Total Electricity Supply 2280."

Even if you count the out of state electricity generation, "27 SW" and "64 Pac NW" and then assume that all of that is coal, it's still dwarfed by "942 Natural Gas," "364 Nuclear," and "434 Other Renewables."

 

[stopcrazypp]

Are you saying it actually went down from 18.2% in 2008 (your number) to 8.1% in 2009?

(18.2% is already lower than what I expected.)

http://www.energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity/total_system_power.html
Notice that the bottom of the chart has a section that has "Unspecified Sources of Power *" at 15.7%, all of which is from out of state. That's where the difference likely is from. Even if you assume all of it is coal, that makes the total coal 23.8%, which is still much better than the 44.5% for US average.

Also note that chart also says because of AB162 (2009) the chart will likely have estimates in the future for even the unspecified sources ("identifying the fuel sources associated with all imported power entering into California.")

Also from my previous link, assuming it is accurate (reading it, it seems like the best estimate from the California energy commission) California is still much better than the US average even factoring in imports:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2009publications/CEC-200-2009-010/CEC-200-2009-010-CMF.PDF

 

[Norbert]

I do believe that the California numbers for coal are much lower than the average. Still, the number for 2009 seems unexpectedly low, even compared to numbers before 2008. This table, for example, doesn't have the required detail, but also doesn't show that big a change between 2008 and 2009: Electricity Forecasts

Yet again, it does agree with everything else I've heard/read that the CA numbers for coal are significantly below average, if that is your main point.

 

[strider]

Clicking back through the years, it looks like 2008 was an anomaly, and the coal percentage in CA has been trending down.

Wasn't that the year Enron screwed us?

 

[TEG]

See also:
More anti-ev gibberish

 

[TEG]

Trying to set the record straight:
Myth vs. Reality - Electric Vehicles - Sierra Club

 

[dpeilow]

Sierra Club: Join our EV Media Rapid Response Network to Spread the Good News

 

[Dan5]

I think this one did a good parody of EV's and who spreads lies about EVs

Simpsons Electric Car Video - Hostedfile.com, Video, Picture, Audio Sharing, Chat, Groups, and Ratings