Lifetime Average Wh/mi

[Hayseed_MS]

@Hayseed_MS what is your estimated 100% charge in miles on any given day (range over several days)?

I’ve heard it’s normal for there to be a 5% drop in the first 6k miles

According to the app, 100% is 350 miles. It is advertised at 375 on Tesla's website.

When it shows the 350 miles, is that per my driving? If I drove much more efficiently, would that go up? Or, is it static to the car no matter driver or style?

 

[aerodyne]

According to the app, 100% is 350 miles. It is advertised at 375 on Tesla's website.

When it shows the 350 miles, is that per my driving? If I drove much more efficiently, would that go up? Or, is it static to the car no matter driver or style?

Unless things have changed on the refresh, and I doubt they have, the rated range displayed on the IC is the range you would get using the EPA consumption for combined cycle, 55% highway. It is independent of how you drive.

The trip meter will go up and down and display estimated range remaining at the actual instant, or averaged over 5,15,or 30 miles.

Not sure if the above is present on the refresh.

In my case, EPA consumption is 290wh/mi. That corresponds to a 78.5ish KwH pack, close to the 80.5 KwH an 85 pack had new, less 2 KwH usable portion of the 4KwH buffer.

 

[VM0412]

According to the app, 100% is 350 miles. It is advertised at 375 on Tesla's website.

When it shows the 350 miles, is that per my driving? If I drove much more efficiently, would that go up? Or, is it static to the car no matter driver or style?

Actually glad to hear that. Mine ranges from 355-365 after about 5500 miles so far on the car (375 mile advertised for 21s). A couple months ago I noted the drop off and scheduled and appt but they canceled it stating it’s an estimate based on past driving patterns and not the actual potential (see pic below).

Also I posted a pic below from Tesla’s site stating that it’s normal to see a drop off in the first few months before leveling off.

Idk this stuff stressed me out over the last couple months as it doesn’t seem like it’s talked about much on the forums other than the horror stories I’ve heard from the few people who’ve had to get their packs replaced.

Seems like yours is fine though, think you’ve driven 10k miles more than me too.

 

[wdolson]

@Hayseed_MS what is your estimated 100% charge in miles on any given day (range over several days)?

I’ve heard it’s normal for there to be a 5% drop in the first 6k miles

That's the average. Some people see more and some see less. In 5 years the only drop I saw was due to a firmware update changing the rated range. My 90% was consistently 267-269 mi from the time I got my car in 2016 to Oct 2019. After a firmware update it dropped to 261-262 Mi and has been that way since.

 

[VM0412]

Yeah I just didn't know what was normal. The number on the IC seems to have a steady decline since I've had the car with the more miles driven. It does fluctuate however. I wouldn't say a SW update has influenced it at all. I don't know if this is just normal with the refresh only or not. Tesla tells you it is...

 

[bai2020]

Similar here, have had the car for about 2 months and 2k miles. Refresh LR with 21’s, for the first 1.5 months the max range was generally between 373-376. The last 2 weeks has ranged between 362-366 so seems like quite a drop recently, not sure why.

 

[dark cloud]

Similar here, have had the car for about 2 months and 2k miles. Refresh LR with 21’s, for the first 1.5 months the max range was generally between 373-376. The last 2 weeks has ranged between 362-366 so seems like quite a drop recently, not sure why.

Because tires were new, and rolling resistance reduces with age. The first few thousand miles are the worst.

 

[bai2020]

Because tires were new, and rolling resistance reduces with age. The first few thousand miles are the worst.

Seems odd that tires would affect the rated EPA range calculation

 

[aerodyne]

Seems odd that tires would affect the rated EPA range calculation

Not the EPA rated range, but the actual range experienced.

I have seen slightly increased consumption with new tires. The effect is gone after 1k miles, perhaps sooner.

 

[wdolson]

Tires have a big impact on range and range calculation. Because electric drive trains are so efficient, it has more noticeable impact on EVs than ICE. It's there with ICE, but there are so many other losses it gets buried in the noise.

Before GPS became available to the public the bus system in Seattle (and King County) implemented a system to keep track of every bus in real time. The system had nodes all over the county that would ping the buses as they drove past. They would gather odometer and bus number information and send that to a central office where people would watch them on a map. they learned early on that the amount of wear on the tires was a critical factor in keeping things accurate. As tires lose tread with use, they get smaller in diameter which requires more turns of the wheel per mile. The odometer ends up running low because it isn't calibrated for tread loss.

Combined with rolling resistance differences the energy used per mile will go down as the tires age and the treads wear down.

 

[dark cloud]

Seems odd that tires would affect the rated EPA range calculation

check out the difference between 19" and 21" (for the performance model)
The same difference can be applied to the Long Range 19" vs. 21".

So yes, tires and wheels do affect the EPA range calculation.

 

[bai2020]

Because tires were new, and rolling resistance reduces with age. The first few thousand miles are the

check out the difference between 19" and 21" (for the performance model)
The same difference can be applied to the Long Range 19" vs. 21".

So yes, tires and wheels do affect the EPA range calculation.


View attachment 727897

yes, I get that and the tires/wheels are factored into the 375 mi rated range when new for the 21" arachnids (vs 405 mi for the 19"). I meant that I find it odd that tire wear beyond that would be factored into the max rated range (not actual range) if charging to 100%. Some people still show the same 375 mi rated range for thousands of miles while mine is down 10-15 miles over the same period.

 

[VM0412]

yes, I get that and the tires/wheels are factored into the 375 mi rated range when new for the 21" arachnids (vs 405 mi for the 19"). I meant that I find it odd that tire wear beyond that would be factored into the max rated range (not actual range) if charging to 100%. Some people still show the same 375 mi rated range for thousands of miles while mine is down 10-15 miles over the same period.

Yeah again I really like to believe that that drop off is more of a guesstimate based on past driving behavior rather than actual range. But just sucks seeing that drop off. Mine seems to have leveled off over the last 2 months at least

 

[dark cloud]

yes, I get that and the tires/wheels are factored into the 375 mi rated range when new for the 21" arachnids (vs 405 mi for the 19"). I meant that I find it odd that tire wear beyond that would be factored into the max rated range (not actual range) if charging to 100%. Some people still show the same 375 mi rated range for thousands of miles while mine is down 10-15 miles over the same period.

Ah, my apologies. You are talking rated range, and not the range of energy usage. When I saw this:

".... for the first 1.5 months the max range was generally between 373-376. The last 2 weeks has ranged between 362-366 "

I thought that was your Wh/mile energy usage (well, because that is the title of the thread.....) and didn't clue in you were talking 373-376 miles.

You are talking degradation, which has nothing to do with tire wear and increasing rolling resistance; the car (or app) doesn't take this into account for displaying your rated range, as you suggested. It is just good 'ole degradation. Typically Model S will loose 5% the first year and level off, some have been more lucky than that, and some have been worse. And yes some have lost a substantial amount overnight due to a software "balancing" of useable capacity. (But I am no expert; see other threads for more info)

Then again, maybe a few charge cycles from 10% to 98% that will change your rated range and rebalance it? That is what has happened in the past, but Tesla is always changing the software, so who actually knows for sure anymore.

But not sure about the new cell chemistry in your 2021 model S refresh batteries; you are all guinea pigs in that regard.

Why do some people get hit more than others? There is no pattern. It resembles the fact that some people with Porsche turbos got 444 hp and some only got 420 hp, but no-one ever knew that and were able to compare to others because it was never displayed on a screen in their cars, and they all weren't dynoed at the same place at the same mileage etc.

In some ways it is a mistake for Tesla to state the "exact estimated" amount. Less questions and second guessing (and posts) would happen if on the app every car just said "about 330-370 miles", and when it got less than 50 miles of range to being fully discharged it just turns to "red" colour, just like a gas vehicle which means get charge as soon as possible.

 

[dark cloud]

This is from a few years ago, but the point still applies
Tesla Model S battery degradation data

 

[GeorgeM]

Hit the one year anniversary today. A decent amount of utilizing the torque available. Highway speeds relatively sane - usually mid 70's. No snow driving that would kill the efficiency. 287 Wh/mi is better than I expected and right at the EPA rating. I'm pretty happy with how efficient the car has been. View attachment 606721

Two year mark. Efficiency improved substantially over the second year/10,000 miles. Several 2,000 mile trips going along with traffic, usually in the 70 to 75 mph range. Pretty sane driving habits, but not shy about enjoying the torque.

 

[WyomingEV]

2018 M3 LR RWD - 46k - 268 Wh/mi - 3.73 mi/KWh

 

[droopaloop]

I have a 2021 MSLR with Arachnids and took delivered in July. I have about 2.5k miles on the car and the app is telling me that I only have 350 miles on full charge. That is 25 miles/~7% of degradation compared the EPA rated 375 miles.

That amount of degradation seems steep to me, especially given the low mileage on the car. I haven't used a supercharger yet. I only charge to 85%. I usually plug in every couple of days, usually with a battery of around 50%-60%. I'm not really sure when the drop happened as I keep the display on percentage. But the range estimate has stayed here and not dropped since I started noticing it which is for about the past 3 weeks or so.

Is this normal? From what I've read on this forum, I was expecting a drop over time, but nowhere near a drop this big this soon.

 

[jsight]

I have a 2021 MSLR with Arachnids and took delivered in July. I have about 2.5k miles on the car and the app is telling me that I only have 350 miles on full charge. That is 25 miles/~7% of degradation compared the EPA rated 375 miles.

That amount of degradation seems steep to me, especially given the low mileage on the car. I haven't used a supercharger yet. I only charge to 85%. I usually plug in every couple of days, usually with a battery of around 50%-60%. I'm not really sure when the drop happened as I keep the display on percentage. But the range estimate has stayed here and not dropped since I started noticing it which is for about the past 3 weeks or so.

Is this normal? From what I've read on this forum, I was expecting a drop over time, but nowhere near a drop this big this soon.

From my experience with the Model Y and from watching others, I would say that is normal.

The capacity estimate is just an estimate and it tends to drop by somewhere between 5 and 10% in the first year before leveling off.

My Y dropped about 6% after a little over 10k miles but has been absolutely flat for the next 10k.

 

[Mark2018s]

Two year mark. Efficiency improved substantially over the second year/10,000 miles. Several 2,000 mile trips going along with traffic, usually in the 70 to 75 mph range. Pretty sane driving habits, but not shy about enjoying the torque.View attachment 732154

That looks more like numbers for a M3....Ive had single trips around 250, but I was really trying to get the lowest I could....my avg is around 310-320.