€119.000
100 units scheduled for 2020 production. Plans to increase production in 2021
100 units scheduled for 2020 production. Plans to increase production in 2021
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Lightyear One
- Thread starter RobStark
- Start date
voyager
Active Member
Who is the target market?
Obviously 450 miles is a plus point but the Model S LR is currently at 375 miles, the LY1 is only 20% more.
Plus the Model S has over twice the charge speed. I.e. range isn't really a USP.
Solar charging: slower than a household plug in Europe, but more convenient I guess. Why not find a Destination Charger or similar? Plus a Model S LR and Powerwall and 4kW Solar is cheaper that the cost of the LY1.
I'm confused why anyone would be interested in it. I guess it could improve in the future, though.
Obviously 450 miles is a plus point but the Model S LR is currently at 375 miles, the LY1 is only 20% more.
Plus the Model S has over twice the charge speed. I.e. range isn't really a USP.
Solar charging: slower than a household plug in Europe, but more convenient I guess. Why not find a Destination Charger or similar? Plus a Model S LR and Powerwall and 4kW Solar is cheaper that the cost of the LY1.
I'm confused why anyone would be interested in it. I guess it could improve in the future, though.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
As it stands now, no, I don't think anyone will want one. It is too expensive, sacrifices too much, and for very little gain. I think the appeal is in the future possibilities. If the tech could be improved drastically, it could be very appealing. I think it is more the "big idea" that is driving this project. After all, IF you had an EV that could truly self-charge on solar and never needed to be plugged in, you would have a car with near infinite range. That would be game-changer. We are far from achieving that now, but as with all tech, it can improve over time. A lot of tech started off really impractical but over time, improved to become essential. Just look at the first Wright airplane. The first plane that the Wright brothers built was not very good but look at planes now.
Eno Deb
Active Member
At the current price it obviously has a very limited market. But it's only so expensive because the first series will be mostly built by hand. In the long run, this may actually have the potential to be less expensive than "traditional" EVs, since it can make do with a smaller battery due to its "ultra efficiency". Of course that also means it's not for people who want high performance. But I like the idea of using the car for an average commute without ever having to plug in (just park in the sun at work
).I also think it looks very cool, truly futuristic without being weird.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Solar panels to work efficiently must face the sun,
and as most as possible perpendicularly to the sun.
This is possible mostly from 10:00 am to 4:00 pm, so 25% for a normal sunny day.
Just buy an electric car and install at your home some solar panels and battery with the rest of the money.
If you have some money left, buy an eolienne which can work day and night, and provides some juice for overcast days.
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Most people on this site know the former and the second is conventional wisdom here on this site.
The team of engineers that are making this car won the Australian World Solar Challenge in 2013, 2015, and 2017 against such poorly funded teams like Honda. IMO that gives them a tad of credibility.
They claim their solar cells are 20% more efficient and the Lightyear One will be able to charge at 12 km per hour in the noon sun.
I say give them two years to deliver a car to the public and let the car magazines test the vehicle before we take a big huge dump on the company.
In 2006 there was a large list of parameters that conventional wisdom had about electric vehicles.
In 2008 the Tesla Roadster shattered them.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective. Depending of the future price of battery versus solar panels,
there might be an optimum cost between daily needed range, solar panel size and cost, and minimum battery size required.
So for a given commute length, if you have a solar car, you can custom order the battery size you would need, lowering the car price.
A typical use case would be someone have a short commute, leaving the car all the day charging on the sun, and coming back home.
You would still be able to charge at home or work in case of bad weather, but otherwise you will get free transportation on sunny days.
Another application would be mounting solar panels on a refrigerated trailer, or a railroad wagon, crossing non stop the US in five days.
If you can run the air conditioning and also charge the batteries during the day, you could dramatically reduce the required battery size for such trip.
There is also a solar car using the Sion and the proposed price is 25,500 euros.
srs5694
Active Member
One of those "future possibilities" is that a car that charges itself from the sun would be a big advantage for people who live in apartments or apartment-style condos, and who therefore don't have ready access to charging infrastructure. If the car can get 20 or 30 miles of range a day off of sunlight, then that will greatly reduce the need to go out of one's way to charge it, thus improving the appeal of the car. Even if the solar power isn't enough to provide all of the electricity needed to drive the car over, say, a month, the reduction in the number of times needed to visit a DC fast charger, plug in at the grocery store, etc., could be an important selling point.
I don't think that's a big factor for the Lightyear One; it's so expensive that I doubt if many apartment-dwellers would be in the market for one. This could be more of a factor for the upcoming Sion, and perhaps for future vehicles, too.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I agree that would be a selling point. But wouldn't it be easier just to install accessible chargers in apartment complexes?
srs5694
Active Member
As a matter of public policy and given current solar panel prices, probably, although I've not crunched the numbers on that. As a practical matter, that will depend on how far solar panel prices drop, whether we as a society (or societies, given that regulations vary regionally) provide the necessary incentives, and what specific renters encounter in the way of landlord (and employer, etc.) accommodation to EVs.
I saw this "20% more" quote in an article too, this must be a misquote and that the cells are roughly 20% efficient.
Noon solar output is roughly 1000W per square meter. The car has about 5 square meters of solar cells. So 5000W of Solar at 20% efficiency gets you 1000W of output from the solar cells. This matches up with their (WLTP) estimates of 83 wh/km and solar charging specs of 12km/hr.
12 km/h * 83 wh/km = 996W
If the WLTP is about 20% higher that EPA rating, that is still 6mph charging in the sun and 160 wh/m. Pretty darn impressive efficiency.
But 10 second 0-60 and heavy in wheel motors won't exactly make it a drivers car.
Cheburashka
Active Member
I can see where it makes sense for Europeans who live in flats and have no access to charging at home.
It's completely useless for America. Someone who can afford that car here will also be able to afford a house with solar. Too many compromises made for those rooftop solar panels.
It's completely useless for America. Someone who can afford that car here will also be able to afford a house with solar. Too many compromises made for those rooftop solar panels.
This is with the current 20% efficiency rated panels. I've heard from an EE associate that they have crossed the 40% threshold in PV design with only military/aerospace having access to these prototypes so far. Game-changing stuff is on the horizon (as always).
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
What about solar trains... I found this video quite inspiring:
World's First Solar Train - Byron Bay Railroad Company
voyager
Active Member
Business case? Start removing your car port, cut down trees. This car needs solar energy to come unhindered in order to replenish its batteries. So, it needs to go to a country where they can afford those prices and where there's plenty of sunlight. Some Arab country... Oh wait, they still have enough of the black stuff in the ground to keep fueling their gas-guzzlers.
Fully Charged also did one a couple of years ago about Vivarail that refurbishes old aluminum Tube carriages. The video showed a battery electric. However, nothing's come of it so far. (Vivarail does now have a diesel-electric conversion running on a local line in SE England.)
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