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Likelihood of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by widodh, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    #1 widodh, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
    We know almost for certain that the Model S will not support CHAdeMO if Tesla does not provide an adapter. There have been some rumors about it, but nothing concrete. At this point we have to assume that CHAdeMO charging will not be supported.

    In this thread: Ads which illustrate why I am so pissed about Tesla's marketing of the 160 it came up again and I felt it deserves a dedicated thread.

    With the Nissan Leaf quick/fast chargers started being installed on various locations. In Europe (NL, BE, DE, CH & UK) a lot of those chargers are being installed. Nissan recently announced that they will donate 400 50kW CHAdeMO chargers.

    In the Netherlands BP also announced that they are going to install CHAdeMO chargers along motor ways.

    This is mainland Europe only, but in the UK Nissan is also installing various CHAdeMO chargers.

    I also guess the same is happening in the USA (couldn't find a map of it..).

    No, these chargers won't be able to charge a Model S with a 85kWh battery within 45 min, but it's a LOT quicker than a 40A charge. (Which isn't possible in Europe).

    A the CHAdeMO chargers are being rolled out, one would assume Tesla would support CHAdeMO, but currently they are not.

    I'd like to discuss the likelihood of an adapter coming out for the Model S.

    The current guess is that the Model S will support the new SAE J1772 DC protocol which has a different signaling then CHAdeMO does.

    How hard will it be to produce such an adapter and would it be possible that a 3rd party company would bring out such an adapter? (Or even the 'community'?)
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I was thinking the same thing. If it's fairly simple, then I don't see why Tesla couldn't at least offer them for purchase to UK customers. Even if it isn't free/standard, I'd imagine it would still be worthwhile to those abroad who really need it in their areas.

    As for aftermarket/the community, I imagine after people get their hands on the officially-offered adapters, they may be able to reverse-engineer them and come up with something. Of course this may end up affecting your warranty.
     
  3. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    ~65 during Q1 2012 bringing the total ~100.
     
  4. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Any particular reason why you point out UK customers?

    It only has to do with signaling difference between CHAdeMO and SAE J1172 DC (if!), but could something like that be solved? Such an adapter needs active processing of both signals and will need power to do so. Where would the adapter get it's power from?

    500V DC is 500V DC, no converting needed on that point.

    You might also run into different problems. Could it be that the adapter would become to heavy for the socket? The CHAdeMO cables are also quite thick and heavy. They might put to much stress on the charge port.

    Lying the adapter on the ground will be forbidden I guess due to safety reasons.
     
  5. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    I don't see it being more heavy than a 70 amp J1772 cable which weighs about 20 lbs. We know that this adapter is available!
     
  6. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    No mal-intent. Only because it seems most calls for it come from European customers. I should have said European not UK.
     
  7. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Ah, ok.

    I've been looking for the CHAdeMO wiring diagram. Does anyone know if a CHAdeMO station delivers something like 12V where a adapter could run on? It will need power since it needs to translate the signaling.
     
  8. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    CHAdeMO Technology

    interface.jpg


    Maybe include some rechargable batteries that are replenished when the 12V lines are active?
     
  9. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    Yeah, this is the one thing keeping me from reserving one. Granted, there are a few other things I'm not too fond about (like the current interior) but they are minor in comparison to missing the charging option that will make long-distance travel possible. Especially since I'll be buying the car mostly for long distance driving. We will keep the Leaf for around-town errands and such, which the Model S is way too big for.

    Also I'd guess the 50kW CHAdeMO would be gentler on the battery than a 90kW Tesla "Supercharger". I have no illusions about 90kW units popping up all around Norway any time soon but CHAdeMO chargers is arriving by the dozen.

    Without a CHAdeMO adapter our Leaf will be a more capable long-distance car than the Model S :(
     
  10. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    Here in TN Cracker Barrel has begun a roll out of CHADeMO and J1772 connectors. The rumor is all reasturaunts will have J1772 and every other store the fast DC chargers. Check on plugshare for the latest details. I really think Tesla would be foolish not to support this standard.
     
  11. scott451

    scott451 KWH-PWR#1349Sprt,S Sig#96

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    Anybody know where I can get a copy of the standard?
     
  12. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Likely from the Chademo association. HERE
     
  13. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    You seem to have some knowledge of this.

    Do you think it will be possible to produce such an adapter? I still think the adapter needs a power source which it will not have since neither the car nor the CHAdeMO charger provide this. Is that correct?
     
  14. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I am hopeful that there will be Tesla superchargers along all the long distance routes I drive, but I doubt it will happen.
    I plan to get an 85kW car, and I want a CHAdeMO adapter even if supercharger support significantly exceeds my expectations.
    I sent mail to Tesla asking about a CHAdeMO adapter and this was the response I got:

    We have not committed to offering a CHAdeMO adapter at this time, although we certainly understand that many customers are interested in such a product. There are some very significant differences between CHAdeMO and the Model S connector, and unfortunately I don’t have any information at this stage about the feasibility of creating such an adapter, nor any capability or pricing information. Thank you though for asking, as this helps us gauge what products to offer in the future.

    Tesla might read this forum and get feedback from it, but I think it is imperative that everyone with a reservation email Tesla and ask about it.
    Tell everyone you know who has a reservation to send mail and ask.
    My suggestions for points:
    1. I would definitely buy the adapter at a reasonable price.
    2. I would most likely buy the adapter at a reasonable price.
    3. I will buy the car anyway if no adapter is available, but expect disappointment and frustration without it.
    4. I would not buy the car without the adapter.
    Optional:
    5. I plan to buy a 40kW Model S and need the CHAdeMO adapter to support at least X kW charge rate.
     
  15. garry753

    garry753 RoadsterS753 ModelS P1449

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    evgonetwork (evgonetwork.com) has committed pretty heavily to CHAdeMO chargers in the Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth areas of Texas. I would like to second the assertion that it would be foolish of Tesla not to support this standard on Model S, and hopefully for the Roadster as well. Because of the already excellent network of chargers, it would open up travel with the Roadster and S to these cities from Austin and San Antonio with the minimum of recharge time.
     
  16. W.Petefish

    W.Petefish Active Member

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    #17 W.Petefish, Jan 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
    I have seen one of those stations around. It doesn't get used very much at all, partially because evgonetwork is a subscription service where even if you don't use it they still bill you per month. (not to mention that the EVSE that they will rent to you is only rated at 20-30A)

    I think I remember Eberhard asking for a CHAdeMO a while back. (I may be mistaken though)
     
  17. garry753

    garry753 RoadsterS753 ModelS P1449

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    I really question evgonetwork's business model. The subscriptions are fairly steep, and are geared toward users in the metropolitan areas that they're serving. I spoke to them last week, and they are allegedly working on a plan for out of metro users who would want to pay as they go.

    I'm hoping this comes to fruition, as even the J1772's are placed at key locations in both Dallas and Houston to make Austin travel to these cities less of a range anxiety-inducing nightmare.
     
  18. CroDriver

    CroDriver Member

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    It's not just a connector... The car's ECUs and BMS has to communicate with the charger. The on-board charger doesn't charge the car if you plug it in to a CHADEMO station, the station does the whole job, so the BMS must communicate with it. An simple adapter won't do the job.
     
  19. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    The best solution would be additional inside sockets like CHAdeMO or Mennekes Type 2 accessible from the front or back trunk.
     

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