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List of all June 20th announcement hints
- Thread starter deonb
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- Tesla Inc.
This is almost certainly going to be extremely fast charging via an enormous stationary pack at the charging station. I believe to make a passable demonstration, they'd need to charge 80% (from 10%-90% SOC) of the 85kWh battery in 10 minutes. That means at least 410kW. The only mystery to me is how they will interface with the car's pack. I think there are 2 options:
1) There is obviously a DC connection between the inverter and the pack capable of over 310kW (the output of model S performance).
2) Since the battery sits at the bottom of the car and the construction of the battery packs are that the individual cells are sandwiched between plates. It may be possible to connect to the most positive and most negative plates.
The stationary battery concept also gives them a chance to experiment with new battery samples for durability testing.
1) There is obviously a DC connection between the inverter and the pack capable of over 310kW (the output of model S performance).
2) Since the battery sits at the bottom of the car and the construction of the battery packs are that the individual cells are sandwiched between plates. It may be possible to connect to the most positive and most negative plates.
The stationary battery concept also gives them a chance to experiment with new battery samples for durability testing.
The current info on the charge page is for a 50% charge (150 miles) within 20 minutes. There is now also an improved topup charge rate, but even that is only another 16% gained for another 10 minutes.
So I don't think it's going to be particularly bothersome if the demo is for a 50% / 150 mile charge within < 10 minutes. For that you "only" need 240kW.
jeff_adams
Member
And all you would need for that is another charge port like the existing one. Same gauge wiring harness, protocol, ect. Simple and inexpensive compared to other solutions.
That demo would get panned by the press. The average joe knows that he pulls up to a pump and pulls away in about 5-10 minutes with 300-400 miles of range. 150miles in 10 minutes, while a huge improvement over the current state of the art, will not play well when you pit it against an example everyone is familiar with (a gas fill up). Then again most all the announcements during this "5 part trilogy" have fallen short of their billings, so you might be right.
But if you tell the average joe the additional 150 miiles are free that will play well especially if you started off with a full "tank" in the morning.
callmesam
Member
"The liquid-cooled battery pack, with quick release fluid connections will be installed in a matter of seconds. The battery pack provides the final structural element to the body. With this engineering feat, you'll be able to quickly swap an empty battery for a full one, should the need arise on long road trips."
Gilbert Passin June 16, 2010
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-factory-birthplace-model-s
Gilbert Passin June 16, 2010
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-factory-birthplace-model-s
Super Capacitor Range Extender*
Optional, small charge storage device which is permanently fitted into the frunk - so obviously you lose luggage space but you gain X kWh of energy storage.
Cabling for this is already installed behind the panels in the frunk in existing vehicles.
Firmware upgrade needed in addition to the hardware.
Bypasses the main battery and on-board chargers when supercharging only allowing higher charging rates.
Charged in a few minutes. Provides N miles of range.
Can be charged from normal outlets at appropriate lower rates.
System is either /or. Either you charge/discharge the main battery or you can charge / discharge the range extender, but you can switch between them at any time.
Usula caveats apply. Don't drive around with a full battery in hot weather.
* just an idea. No evidence
Optional, small charge storage device which is permanently fitted into the frunk - so obviously you lose luggage space but you gain X kWh of energy storage.
Cabling for this is already installed behind the panels in the frunk in existing vehicles.
Firmware upgrade needed in addition to the hardware.
Bypasses the main battery and on-board chargers when supercharging only allowing higher charging rates.
Charged in a few minutes. Provides N miles of range.
Can be charged from normal outlets at appropriate lower rates.
System is either /or. Either you charge/discharge the main battery or you can charge / discharge the range extender, but you can switch between them at any time.
Usula caveats apply. Don't drive around with a full battery in hot weather.
* just an idea. No evidence
So let's say you put a 220 lbs super capacitor in the frunk, which is pretty much what you can do without re-doing crash testing.
The state of the art commercially available Super Capacitors get 77.8 Wh/kg. Since 220 lbs is 100kg, you'll get in total 7780 Wh (7.78 kWh) of storage capacity. Enough range for about 22 miles.It does not seem worth it.
Beavis
Model S Signature 991
If it is a battery swap demo, I am shorting the stock. Better Place wasted $800 million trying to make that work. It is a horrible idea.
I am hoping it is dual (or more) Superchargers plugged into the same car. Some sort of arrangement where they can recharge seperate sections of the battery pack at the same time, cutting the recharge time in half.
Those stations are being designed for 4-10 Superchargers. 800 amp service on one of the permits that I saw. So the raw power is there for multiple Superchargers to be working at the same time.
I am hoping it is dual (or more) Superchargers plugged into the same car. Some sort of arrangement where they can recharge seperate sections of the battery pack at the same time, cutting the recharge time in half.
Those stations are being designed for 4-10 Superchargers. 800 amp service on one of the permits that I saw. So the raw power is there for multiple Superchargers to be working at the same time.
+1 for this. I do not think battery swap and the infrastructure buildout required to do it right will work...at this time.
It's going to be battery swapping!* (I just posted this in the "June 20th Speculation" thread, but figure it's worth repeating.)
This was the lead image in the email invite to the June 20th announcement (guessing they're sending this to all the Los Angeles owners?) -- the filename of the image is "battswap-hero". Pretty sure "hero" refers to the layout/lead image, and "battswap" is unmistakable.
( *OR...they're just messing with us.)
http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/battswap-hero_732_448.png
This was the lead image in the email invite to the June 20th announcement (guessing they're sending this to all the Los Angeles owners?) -- the filename of the image is "battswap-hero". Pretty sure "hero" refers to the layout/lead image, and "battswap" is unmistakable.
( *OR...they're just messing with us.)
http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/battswap-hero_732_448.png
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
jeff_adams
Member
What kind of battery swapping infrastructure is at Hawthorne? I vote messing with you.
By the way, what time is the demonstration and who's broadcasting it?
By the way, what time is the demonstration and who's broadcasting it?
It says 7:30 pm (Pacific) on the original email, but on the RSVP acceptance email it says "Announcements will begin at 8:30 pm".
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
None. Obviously they wouldn't set it up over a week ahead of the demo. It's certainly portable to some extent.
Nothing safety related will ever go in the frunk and any energy storage device would be in that category. The car would need connectors routed. I'm pretty sure it'd need a fire wall as there is none now. It'd require new crash tests. Etc.
That makes sense. I think it'll be a straight battery swap. The question is how they're going to work out all the challenges (battery ownership, economics, convenience, etc).
If they're not in fact messing with the file name, could they plan to have ranger teams from service centers do field battery swaps on totally "empty" Model S's, perhaps using specially-modified flatbeds? That would obviate the need to take the cars somewhere to charge for hours, avoid tying up supercharger bays, and fairly quickly get the owners on their way. The owners could return to the service centers after their trip and swap back for their original batteries. Difficult? IDK. Impossible? Nah.
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