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Live Traffic info not integrated to GPS/Google Maps?

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by HankLloydRight, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Now this I found really strange, so maybe I'm doing something wrong.

    Yesterday I drove from NYC to Philadelphia on the NJTP. It was a route I can do in my sleep, but it was my first long trip in my MS, so I wanted to test out all the onboard systems.

    Anyway, the traffic indicator indicated severe traffic on the NJTP south yesterday and the maps showed the RED line down most of the NJTP. But the GPS seemed to be totally unaware of the traffic delays, and still showed the original ETA. When I brought up the identical route on my iPhone using Google Maps, it did supply the proper ETA and traffic delays on-route, and had my accurate ETA about 45 minutes later than the GPS on the Model S screen.

    Yes, I had the traffic icon "on" and the traffic was showing on the screen.

    So is there something else missing, or is it just that Tesla hasn't gotten to integrating the live traffic info into the GPS instructions to keep the ETA accurate and/or even offer suggested re-routing to avoid the traffic, just like my GARMIN handheld GPSs have done for years.
     
  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    As far as I can tell, the ETA is based on the speed limit and distance. The only correction it does is when it recalculates based on the time and distance left. The "traffic" part, at least in DFW, appears to be based on the road and time of day rather than what the traffic actually is. I've had many times when the map shows red and the traffic is going over the speed limit or vice versa. I expect this to get better in future updates.
     
  3. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Right, the onboard Navigon nav system that comes into play for turn-by-turn directions is spectacularly 'dumb' and is not traffic-aware. It's not in sync with the 17" Google Maps and traffic data; Tesla software simply overlays whatever the nav system spits out on top of the Google Maps.

    I call it dumb because it not only doesn't take traffic into account but is also known to route in suboptimal ways. On several occasions, I've had to rely on the Google Maps app on my iPhone instead.

    Another thing that 6.0 may do something about. Btw, with the tech package, we have 7-years worth of free updates to the Navigon database. Wonder when and how the database updates are supposed to happen.
     
  4. PhilBa

    PhilBa Active Member

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    Yeah, Tesla Nav is state of the art. for 1995. I really hope that they move away from garmin/navigon but it's probably not likely. The lack of real time ETA is particularly aggravating. I will be sitting at a dead stop on the interstate and it's telling me I have 2 minutes until arrival. I can only hope that embarrassment will lead Tesla to fix it.
     
  5. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    When deciding on which Nav system to use, if Tesla demoed it vs the Denso (Toyota) system, they probably thought it was wonderful. It's about 500X better than Denso, which would sometimes route you 1500 miles out of the way.
     
  6. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    They physical display with 17" screen and turn by then on the smaller screen is state of the art but yes, the software and routing is still very basic. Something I'm sure they are working on.
     
  7. SeminoleFSU

    SeminoleFSU Member

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    Honestly I don't understand why they didn't just go full Google with the Nav. The only thing I can think of is the aspect of map caching. Google maps does this but it won't (AFAIK) let you cache the entire continental US. You can cache an area, but it isn't much bigger than your average US state. If Tesla could work with Google to cache a larger area, they should be able to switch to exclusively Google. The heads up Nav that appears on the dashboard could be Google's they have a heads up component to Google maps that does turn by turn
     
  8. jhs_7645

    jhs_7645 VIN: #3305

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    You asked and answered it, map caching only works if you plug the route in, otherwise, it would have to load an entire region's maps at every zoom level. That’s a *lot* of data.

    Second point, what advantage does a cached map have over offline nav maps? None. So bottom line, there is no advantage to use google maps for offline nav.

    That all being said, it would be nice if they took traffic data into account (when available) when plotting the course. That’s not rocket science, regardless of which nav system they use.
     
  9. PhilBa

    PhilBa Active Member

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    Given that it's from Garmin, I'm sure they charge more for RT Traffic integration? Also, where is Garmin's RT traffic data coming from? Google is the mother lode and I'm pretty sure they don't want to share with Garmin. Yeah, the code is not rocket science but sometimes even "straightforward" integration is messy. Also, I'd be surprised if the code even has the concept of dynamic cost per traveled segment so there is probably a lot of new code. I would guess that it requires a full requalification cycle. In that case, it makes more sense to skip to GNav. Then tracking Google's improvements going forward should be a lot easier.
     
  10. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    On both my trip legs this weekend (NJ/NY/CT), the traffic info was remarkably accurate, even for the state roads and secondary highways. I don't know how they capture the info, but the traffic info was live and spot-on, even in areas that rarely get congested.
     
  11. jhs_7645

    jhs_7645 VIN: #3305

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    As I understand it Google Navigation only works when connected, route planning, etc.. is all done on their servers. Until there is a solution that can operate completely offline, I think we're stuck with 'traditional' navigation system and hoping for as much integration as possible when connected to 3G. Some systems get traffic data via Satellite, so that's a possibility as well.
     
  12. pete8314

    pete8314 Vendor

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    Waze....just use Waze, at least until Tesla & Google implement it directly (he says, hopefully). I use it for my daily commute religiously, and, of course, it does real-time diversions based on traffic info, and lets me know of any police up ahead :) It even suggests the occasional dodge on and off service roads, which is impressive, that's practically 'local knowledge'.
     
  13. SeminoleFSU

    SeminoleFSU Member

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    Yea without internet I don't think Google Maps can build the route... probably the main reason why Tesla went with a hybrid solution.. that and, you can't cache a big enough area with Google Maps. If Google would just add this feature, I think we could be well on our way to having one navigation system.. (after Tesla implemented it of course)
     
  14. jhs_7645

    jhs_7645 VIN: #3305

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    Which brings me to my final (next) point... Why Google? They're not remotely interested in selling or making something that isn't connected to the internet. If they can't use a product to sell you something, then they won't make it. Google should be out of the equation here. I think people often forget that about The Goog. I think the long term solution involves better integration between offline and online data when available, but I'm not sure how that's going to happen unless one of the nav companies really steps up.
     
  15. wcalvin

    wcalvin Member

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    Another reason why Tesla should provide a way to show your iPhone on the big screen.
     
  16. pete8314

    pete8314 Vendor

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    +1 that. Would be very cool.
     
  17. Teo

    Teo Banned

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    I don't know if any of you are aware but on Windows Phone platform Nokia has the two apps called "Here Maps" and "Here Drive". Here Drive has offline voice navigation. Caching is not needed as you download maps for entire regions. I downloaded the map for England which is 386MB. I can download any map of any region or country for free. All maps work offline although I need to pay a one of £10 license fee if I want to use Here Drive in another country. I can do offline address or postcode search and it provides voice navigation.

    In one of the Model S review videos in the UK they were driving somewhere with poor cell phone reception and the navigation didn't work well. iPhone or Android wouldn't have worked in that case either even if you have a data plan. Their native apps don't work offline. There are all sorts of apps trying to make it work for but it doesn't. There is a Tomtom app for around £40 both on Android and iPhone and even though they say it works offline it doesn't because it regularly needs to check in to validate the user.

    Yes you can cache areas but without a data plan you can't search or have turn by turn voice navigation. Also without a reception you can't cache more areas. Here maps works 100% without a data plan or cell phone reception. It even works without a sim card. I just tested after removing the sim card and here maps worked fine. GPS also worked showing my current location. Here Drive, which is the car navigation app requires a £10 additional upgrade for global navigation license to work without a sim card in any country.

    I go on long bicycle rides. That's why I wanted offline navigation. First I started looking for a bicycle GPS device but soon realized everybody was recommending a Nokia phone. So I bought a Nokia Lumia 520. Of course it has built in GPS like any modern smartphone and the GPS works without a cell reception. I don't have a data plan and don't pay for internet on the phone. In map settings there is something called "traffic flow" which you can turn on/off. I suppose that is live traffic data which would work when it was used online. When riding a bicycle in the city the voice navigation is especially useful.

    Side note: The Nokia Lumia 520 is £65 on amazon.co.uk with PAYG and $55 on amazon.com. In the UK you can get it for £60 from CarphoneWarehouse with a PAYG upgrade. I bought mine a year ago for a little more than that.

    Here Maps is not available on Android or IOS but the new Amazon Fire Phone has it which is based on a modified version of Android. But I don't know if it works offline on Fire Phone. That phone is not even for sale yet.
     
  18. simonog

    simonog Member

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    Teo: i have the TomTom app on my. iPhone. It works excellently whether online or offline. The one thing it can't do offline (for obvious reasons) is real time traffic and rerouting. It's very useful as my phone is with me most of the time.
     
  19. Teo

    Teo Banned

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    Simon, you are right. The iPhone TomTom app seems to be a great choice. According to messages here it also works without cell reception which is even better than working offline.
    GPS app without a signal

    So I checked again why the reviews I read were so bad. It turns out the TomTom Android app doesn't work offline and it also lacks many features compared to iPhone version. Some reviews:
    play.google.com/apps/tomtom1
    play.google.com/apps/tomtom2
    play.google.com/apps/tomtom3
    play.google.com/apps/tomtom4

    There is this recent app for Android called Garmin Viago with live traffic when online but it is supposed to work offline too. However the reviews suggest it doesn't. I wonder if this is a problem with Android considering that Google wants everything to be online all the time. I think the navigation in Model S is by Garmin, on top of Google maps. So live traffic would work if Model S was using Viago, which has terrible looking maps, or was using Google's own navigation integrated with Google maps. I don't know if they can merge the two or if they are even working on it. It looks complicated.

    play.google.com/apps/garmin.viago

    In case somebody was not aware of Garmin/Google Maps integration in Model S, here is topic confirming that:
    teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/Garmin
     
  20. tliving

    tliving Member

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    In the annual shareholders meeting Elon said they're going to do the traffic stuff with Tesla to Tesla communications (he said "Like Waze") but that they will also use 20 million secondary data sources. Priority would be give to data provided from Tesla. Not great in low Tesla count areas, but hopefully those 20M other data sources are decent. The car to car communication bit was news to me and opens up all sorts of cool possibilities.

    Source:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAeetyfnHfk&list=WL&index=6
    Features at 13:07-15:49
     

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