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#41
chilman408 said:
Not to perpetuate any argument.

But you should read up on Lemon Law in California.

The law has no regards to whether the company is new or established.

To say that because Tesla is new and we need level our expectation between spending $100k with Tesla versus spending $100k elsewhere is pretty ignorant.
Click to expand...

There are 2 arguments here. One is whether you should get a loaner and another is manufacturing defects.

With regards to lemon law I 100% agree, if you're going to manufacture a car it needs to meet minimum requirements around quality and I'm glad this law in place. I am not positing that Tesla should get a pass on quality of manufacturing. I, myself have 11 items I'm getting looked at on my first service visit after only 2k miles. Including a driver's side seat that sounds like it's a 100 year old rocking chair.
 
#42
From my understanding lemon law states that the manufacturer has to repair issues within so many attempts or you can invoke your right to have them buy the car back. Does California's lemon law state anything regarding loaners?
 
#44
chilman408 said:
My argument is if Tesla's official message is not to expect use of your car at random times due to their fault and not to expect a comparable replacement -

I guarantee lawyers will jump on this.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's Tesla's official message.......

Also, their early vehicles had far worse problems and I have yet to see a class action lawsuit. So if you're guaranteeing it what odds are you giving me? I'll put money on this. :)
 
#45
What are we complaining about? At least Tesla gives us loaners.

I have a Ford and it has been in the shop for warranty repair for three consecutive months and NO loaner at first. After two months they begrudgingly gave me a loaner. After a while they sent me a bill for the loaner and when I reminded them that it was a free loaner they resentfully remembered. They keep pointing out that loaners are not included under warranty repair. They can't even pick you up so you have to arrange your own transportation to and from the shop.

So if you want to drive Ford you need to buy two Fords for each. One to drive and one to have repaired under warranty for a few months at a time.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Big Earl and XHokie
#46
tinm said:
Yeah everybody says that, ha ha, but
...
f) this thing uses ELECTRONS like you would not believe. P100DL, for sure, but geez. I average 500-550Wh/mi (always with range mode ON) just putting around town on 25-45mph streets. My S was more like 280-320Wh/mi.

I miss my S.
Click to expand...
You do realize that you're not obliged to use Launch Mode every time you put the thing into Drive, right? ;)
 
  • Funny
Reactions: vrykolas, Peteybabes and Olle
#47
Tesla loaners have been hit or miss for me. Would love to know what criteria they use to determine how nice a car to give you. My worst was a beat up Chevy micro SUV with an empty gas tank. My best was a Tesla roadster even though I didn't formally deserve a loaner that time, was just in to fix flat tire. That was awesome, will never forget. It was the Long Island City SC.
 
#52
Xtek said:
I don't think it's Tesla's official message.......

Also, their early vehicles had far worse problems and I have yet to see a class action lawsuit. So if you're guaranteeing it what odds are you giving me? I'll put money on this. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, and my point is this will never be Tesla's official message.

Tesla is predatory on their customer's good will. You willing to take on a Hyundai in exchange for Tesla's defect is your good will.

If Tesla puts out an official message to say 'do not expect a comparable replacement while we fix our mfg/design related defects' - I will take your bet.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: XHokie and Xtek
#55
chilman408 said:
Lemon law read it before you ask like you know what you're talking about.
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Please provide the language in the Lemon Law that speaks to providing an equivalent value car as a Loaner...

That is basis of your frustration and argument right? "I paid $100k+ for a car, so I deserve a ~$100k+ loaner car no matter what when it's in for service or repairs".
 
#56
chilman408 said:
Lemon law read it before you ask like you know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

What state are you talking about CA?

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf
https://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/CA-LLsummary.pdf

If you're talking about the Replacement clause that is around replacement of the entire vehicle not a loaner.

I see nowhere in there that states they have to provide a loaner at all let alone one at an equivalent value. The Tesla community is amazing. The ratio of people that engage vs ownership is so high. However, I get tired of seeing the "This is a $100k car and this is what I get?!".
 
  • Like
Reactions: XHokie
#57
tinm said:
Never used "Launch Mode"; is that what is activated if you tap on the blue "Max Battery Power" link?
Click to expand...
After you select "Max Battery", press and hold the brake all the way down and then simultaneously press the accelerator to the floor and then release. Then release the brake. The vehicle will be in Brake Hold and in "Launch Mode". If you floor the accelerator within 8 seconds, you'll have maximum acceleration.
 
#58
Xtek said:
What state are you talking about CA?

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf
https://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/CA-LLsummary.pdf

If you're talking about the Replacement clause that is around replacement of the entire vehicle not a loaner.

I see nowhere in there that states they have to provide a loaner at all let alone one at an equivalent value. The Tesla community is amazing. The ratio of people that engage vs ownership is so high. However, I get tired of seeing the "This is a $100k car and this is what I get?!".
Click to expand...


I guess everyone can google but not everyone understands how the law works.

Under a class action situation in pursuant of Tesla for damages under the lemon law, rental car damages is recoverable. With the presumption being Tesla makes a one-sided decision (if they do take a official stance) that a Hyundai is comparable to a Model X in the situation where owners have loss of use of the Model X, there is a case to be made that owner's can recover damages because a Hyundai is not a reasonably comparable alternative to the Model X.

I will give you an extreme case so you can comprehend the situation - what if Tesla provides a tricycle for you to get from point A to point B? And if this is not ok, why is an Hyundai ok?
 
#59
Tesla doesn’t guarantee loaners at all. They can just tell you to have a friend pick you up, like Ford and many other inexpensive brands.

One of the things I really enjoyed about Infiniti ownership was loaners were in the sales contract! But, Nissan is a giant company with huge profits, so I guess expecting the same from a boutique automaker like Tesla is unfair.
 
  • Like
Reactions: XHokie
#60
mal_tsla said:
Tesla doesn’t guarantee loaners at all. They can just tell you to have a friend pick you up, like Ford and many other inexpensive brands.

One of the things I really enjoyed about Infiniti ownership was loaners were in the sales contract! But, Nissan is a giant company with huge profits, so I guess expecting the same from a boutique automaker like Tesla is unfair.
Click to expand...

Again, Tesla can behave like an inexpensive automaker, and that's a business decision that they'd made.

They'd weigh the risk of the probability that owners won't scream lemon law and won't claim punitive damages against the benefit of not having to set aside loaners. I'm sure they'd determined that there is a number they could live with.

This is them preying on your good will nothing more.

Under the law, there is no difference between an established motor company versus a boutique or new motor company. If you see a difference, it means you're a prey.
 
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