[lolachampcar] Performance Upgrade Efforts

[lolachampcar]

I verified with engineering that what I just received is what is in my wife's S85 and my P+. There are not different part numbers for + and non-+.

Regretfully, Tesla gets their arms with bushings installed else I would have ordered bushings and not whole arms.

 

[hans]

I verified with engineering that what I just received is what is in my wife's S85 and my P+. There are not different part numbers for + and non-+.

Regretfully, Tesla gets their arms with bushings installed else I would have ordered bushings and not whole arms.

Is it the same part number for a S60? I would like to see what adding the new bushings to my S60 would do for the handling. What is the part number and how much should I expect to pay for it, plus installation at the Tesla service center?

 

[Gizmotoy]

In case anyone else was confused, I think I figured it out. Maybe lola can verify I have it right.

Feb P85, and later S85 and P85+ all have the same lower rear control arm part number. At some point post-February, the part was changed to use the P85+ bushings, but the part number was unchanged. Now all cars get the + bushings.

 

[CanuckS#69]

Does anyone know whether the lower rear control arm is a part of the drive unit or is disconnected from the drive unit if it is replaced? I'm curious as to whether Tesla will be replacing the older bushing style when they are already doing work on that area of the car since they obviously believe that the new bushing is the "proper" part on the assembly line.

 

[JST]

Does anyone know whether the lower rear control arm is a part of the drive unit or is disconnected from the drive unit if it is replaced? I'm curious as to whether Tesla will be replacing the older bushing style when they are already doing work on that area of the car since they obviously believe that the new bushing is the "proper" part on the assembly line.

These pics (which aren't mine) suggest that the suspension and rear subframe all come out when the drive unit is replaced, but if I had to guess I'd guess that the bushings themselves aren't replaced as a matter of course--I'd guess that the drive unit is simply unbolted from the subframe, a new one bolted in, and the subframe lifted back into place.

http://m.imgur.com/a/gDvJR

This looks like the drive unit itself:

And this is the subframe:

 

[lolachampcar]

It not a matter of proper or not proper when it comes to refinements as a product moves forward. Most manufacturers do not publish these minor changes to avoid customers coming back and demanding the latest parts be installed in their cars. The hardware configuration is a function of when the car was produced/purchased which is perfectly normal and correct. I'm just glad Tesla is constantly improving the product instead of leaving improvements to the next iteration of the design as most manufacturers do.

WRT timing, I was provided this information-

"The lower arm changed for all cars last spring and are now common for all variants.
There was a short time during the transition period where P+ got the new arms while
other air suspension cars did not but this changed in May. All cars now have the new
stiffer lower arms."

I hesitate in posting this kind of information as I do not want to "stir anyone up". I believe Tesla is doing all this the right way and am glad they are constantly making their product better. This kind of information is really useful for those of us that like to tinker and I can think of no faster way to clam Tesla up then to have them regret talking to us about their improvements.

 

[pimp-boy]

Hi lolachampcar, is it safe to say that only the lower control arm changed and not the upper and control arm and toe link were changed (I assume the toe link and upper control arm changes are specific to the plus?)? If so, I have to test drive the newer models to see how much more they have improved.

It not a matter of proper or not proper when it comes to refinements as a product moves forward. Most manufacturers do not publish these minor changes to avoid customers coming back and demanding the latest parts be installed in their cars. The hardware configuration is a function of when the car was produced/purchased which is perfectly normal and correct. I'm just glad Tesla is constantly improving the product instead of leaving improvements to the next iteration of the design as most manufacturers do.

WRT timing, I was provided this information-

"The lower arm changed for all cars last spring and are now common for all variants.
There was a short time during the transition period where P+ got the new arms while
other air suspension cars did not but this changed in May. All cars now have the new
stiffer lower arms."

I hesitate in posting this kind of information as I do not want to "stir anyone up". I believe Tesla is doing all this the right way and am glad they are constantly making their product better. This kind of information is really useful for those of us that like to tinker and I can think of no faster way to clam Tesla up then to have them regret talking to us about their improvements.

 

[lolachampcar]

I have been told that all cars now have the same lower control arms in the back and that the P+ has uprated or stiffer bushings in the upper camber link, toe link and torque link. I have confirmed that the upper camber link has stiffer bushings on my P+.

I would be interested in your impressions. If you get a chance, try to drive both air and coil back to back in a P or S. I'm thinking of doing the same to get a better handle on how much of the improved feel in my wife's S is due to coil and how much is the result of the lower a-arms.

Again, I was amazed to find that going from low compliance P+ upper camber arms (bushed) to zero compliance arms with high angle misalignment ball bearing in place of the bushings made ZERO difference in feel. This leads me to believe a vast majority (if not all) the difference in suspension bushing compliance is in the lower a-arm change.

JST,
Thanks for the pics. Every time I see them I think "nice packaging".

 

[sgblank]

@lolachampcar / pimp-boy
not sure if this will help the conversation, but here are the parts and part numbers that Tesla is now installing as part of a P85 to P85+ upgrade

 

[Gizmotoy]

If you get a chance, try to drive both air and coil back to back in a P or S. I'm thinking of doing the same to get a better handle on how much of the improved feel in my wife's S is due to coil and how much is the result of the lower a-arms.

I drove P85+ to S85 (maybe it was S60, can't recall, one of the two) coil back-to-back in September and noticed a significant difference in feel between the two, especially in the transitions. Indeed, it was great enough to purchase without the air.

What I don't know, unfortunately, is how old those cars were. I wouldn't imagine they'd be giving 4 months worth of test drives before rotating them out given how fast they sell them off the floor, but maybe.

 

[lolachampcar]

Giz,

You have THE car as you already have the best LCAs. Just get some adjustability to the lower perches by adding a few more C clip grooves and your there! If the air damper thing works out with coils, you'll have a nice ugrade path for the cost of finding some one that has done a full factory P+ upgrade.

 

[lolachampcar]

I finally broke down and ordered some 14" springs in both 225 lb/in and 250 lb/in (standard Tesla MS85 spring rates) for use with air suspension dampers.

The pictures below show part of the dilemma. Pictured are front and rear damper pairs. In the first picture (for the rear of the car), the one on the left is the coil damper with lower perch installed. The one on the right is the air damper with Koni adjustable ride heigh sleeve installed using the original air damper C clip location. Ideally, I would have been able to place a spiral base (aluminum) on the Koni adjustment ring such that the (pictured) rubber spring land could be used with the stock Tesla springs on the air spring dampers. This would have required a CnC base be designed and fabricated which I thought was a bit of an overkill given the availability of inexpensive coil springs. If this all works out, the very best set up would be a set of Koni sleeves slid down on top of the air dampers using the existing C clip location. Add a spiral land and the stock rubber grommet to accommodate the stock open end coil springs and you would have a fully reversible coil spring conversion using almost exclusively stock Tesla components.

Note that the Koni adjustable ride height spring land has been adjusted to achieve stock ride height in both these pictures. The bottom of both dampers is on the ground. This will give you an idea of the adjustment room available had I been able to use the stock springs.

 

[Dreamin]

This would have required a CnC base be designed and fabricated which I thought was a bit of an overkill given the availability of inexpensive coil springs.

And using the factory spring enables you to use the factory shock-mounts on top. With an off-the-shelf coil spring, will you need to rework the top mounts?

 

[lolachampcar]

Removing the top open coil spacer allows standard 2.5" closed coil springs to land directly on the shock mount without modification The only issue is a "bell" that contains the bump stop. This bell opens on the damper end a bit with this opening interfering with the ID of a 2.5" spring. About 30% of this bell will have to be removed to allow the aftermarket springs to slide over.

Anyone know of a company that makes bases for open coil springs?

 

[lolachampcar]

The coil spring on air dampers are coming together....

The stock bump stop sleeve had to be ground down just a bit to get it to fit inside the 2.5" ID springs (the not very in focus first picture) but otherwise the dampers went together with reasonable effort.

The stock rear damper units have a little bit of preload. The fronts have a lot so make sure you have a good set of spring compressors when you go to mess with these. The adjustable coil bases make it easy to assemble the units then "screw in" the desired initial preload.

It is my hope that the starting point for the 2.5" coil springs (250 lb/in front 225 lb/in rear stock Tesla coil spring rates) will work with the increased damping. If they do, I'll determine the ideal ride height by testing (single person and fully loaded) and then machine a new groove in the dampers. Doing this will allow me to use all the stock Tesla spring pieces which are very well done. If different spring rates are required to properly manage ride heights, the 2.5" set up will have to stay as I am not having custom springs wound

 

[Dreamin]

NICE! Great progress.

What spring mfg did you end up going with?

 

[lolachampcar]

I used Summit Racing's stock springs. I've learned to use cheap springs in the beginning as I normally end up buying a lot of different ones before settling in on the right rate.

 

[Dave EV]

The coil spring on air dampers are coming together....

Very, very nice! Looking forward to your future reports on the setup!

 

[lolachampcar]

I got Tthe rears on today. Slow going on the first one and got the second one on in 1/2 the time Gitt'n old.

The 14" springs are not long enough for air spring clip locations. I'm at the top of the adjustment and still a half inch or more too low.
Simply grinding off a bit of the metal bellows which contains the bump rubber is not enough. The springs rub and make noise.

The back of the car feels AWESOME....... It was worth every bit of the pain. Let's see if that holds true when I get front and rears done.

 

[lolachampcar]

Two observations...

First, metal "bell" that contains the bump rubber is rubbing against the ID of the 2.5" springs. I've got some 16" ultra high travel Hyperco springs on the way. These are wound like a barrel and may not have the rub tendency. I'll be dropping off the front dampers to have C clip grooves machined into the body for 1, 1.25 and 1.5" lower than my wife's S85. If possible, the stock spring configuration with all the isolation rubbers is the way to go.

Second, I went to press out the P+ bushings in my stock upper arms and they are large in diameter than the stock bushings. I'm having new press tooling built as well as having a set of arms modified for the larger diameter P+ bushings. I'll post dimensions when I get them.

I'm getting a real good feeling about coils on air dampers at just the right ride height. This is going to be a killer set up.