TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Long range 3 has 48A charger!

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by TexasEV, Aug 2, 2017.

Tags:
  1. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,314
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Remember all the confusion and changing information about the Model X charger in the first few months? It seems Tesla is at it again.

    Here is an excerpt from an email from the Tesla charging team:

    Just like Model S and X, Model 3 will have two on-board charger configurations paired with the battery option:

    • Model 3 Standard Battery: Max 32A on-board charger (7.7 kW)
    • Model 3 Long Range Battery: Max 48A on-board charger (11.5 kW)
    The same accessories will be included with Model 3 (mobile connector and adapter for NEMA 14-50) so the NEMA 14-50 outlet on a 50 amp circuit breaker will still work just fine. Recharge rate will be about 30 miles of range per hour of charge.

    For faster charging, a Wall Connector installed with a 60 amp circuit breaker will match the 48A on-board charger of the Long Range Model 3. Recharge rate with this combination will be 45 miles of range per hour of charge.

    I now see that spec sheet that said 40A charging didn't actually say "40A charger". It said
    • Home charging rate: 37 miles of range per hour (240V outlet, 40A)
    Silly us for assuming that meant the car had a 40A charger! Apparently the PR person forgot to mention you could get 48A by using a HPWC. Or is this just another example of Tesla dumbing down the car marketing for the masses? No more specifying battery by kWh, and no more specifying size of the charger? Wouldn't want to intimidate the prospective buyers by all that EV jargon.
     
    • Informative x 16
    • Like x 4
    • Helpful x 2
  2. jonnyg

    jonnyg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Seems weird that the spec sheet wouldn't give the max charging rate, but I hope it can charge at 48A in case I decide on HPWC instead of using the UMC or my Juicebox 40A that I have right now for my Leaf.
     
  3. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,906
    Location:
    Northern Virginia, USA
    So is it the same UMC as the S and X? I never understood what I saw here and elsewhere where it was implied that the Model 3 'model' would be different with different adapters. Made no sense if so.

    Still don't see why it's not the same 48 Amp 'normal' charger in all cases.... does it save that much to add another part for the 'Standard' battery?

    Thanks for getting the details, I thought the 40 Amps (for a standard 14-50) sounded like a weird 'limit'!
     
  4. favo

    favo Model 3 Reservation Holder

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    I think I read somewhere that it's an improved UMC with thinner and longer cable, but can't find the reference now.
     
  5. SureValla

    SureValla Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Shelton, CT
    • Informative x 1
  6. Park2670

    Park2670 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    Utah
    I have actually thought about this. The spec sheet says 40 amps, but the in car charging photos we have seen show 48 amps. Im curious which is actually correct.
     
  7. Thomas Edison

    Thomas Edison Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    549
    Location:
    Portland
    Couldn't think is mean that the smaller battery has a 48amp charger too?
     
  8. TXjak

    TXjak Owner/Investor/Advocate

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    So, if it achieves 37 mph with 240V x 40A (9.6 kW) then 240 x 48A (11.5 kw) should achieve about a 44 mph charge rate.

    Maybe Tesla will offer a 14-60 adapter for the UMC.
     
  9. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,745
    #9 Jeff N, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    • Funny x 4
  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,314
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Yeah, I emailed him to say I have nothing to do with the Model 3 Owners Club and have no reason to make anything up. The email excerpt is from the Tesla charging team.

    Expect to see the info in the press kit clarified soon. Communication has never been one of Tesla's strengths.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,549
    Not many 14-60 in the world. Plus might require sizing up the wiring internal to the UMC. The HPWC has a much larger cord.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,505
    Location:
    Vienna Woods, Aptos, California
    #12 Ulmo, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    Very silly, indeed. This is blazingly simple, to those of us who have been following this closely. To anybody else, it's a jumble of numbers, and they would need to refer to charts like we have to understand. So, here's just such a chart and its interpretation (keep reading).

    A 40 amp A/C power breaker is allowed to use 80% continuous in most USA jurisdictions and roughly similar in most of the world, which is what Tesla considers its circuits. That's a maximum charge rate of 32 amps A/C. Very simple! Here are the normal lines:

    At Model S - HPWC (High Power Wall Connector) we see (newer type) HPWC's input (circuit breaker level) can be set to 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A, 35A, 40A, 45A, 50A, 60A, 70A, 80A, 90A or 100A. That corresponds to output of 12A, 16A, 20A, 24A, 28A, 32A, 36A, 40A, 48A, 56A, 72A, and 80A respectively. So:
    • 32A on-board A/C charger, 40A A/C breaker circuit (short range Model 3 according to the email you got)
    • 40A on-board A/C charger. HPWC must be set to 50A or higher. Lower capacity (single) charger in pre-refresh Model S. Can use UMC (which maximum is 50A input with 40A output), HPWC, or J1772. 50A campsite plugs are very common. 50A construction site plugs are also very common. The UMC maxes at 40A output (50A input), so this continues to reinforce how common this is.
    • 48A on-board A/C charger, requires HPWC or J1772 set to 60A or higher. Lower capacity charger in Model X and refresh Model S, and the long range Model 3 according to the email you got.
    • 72A on-board A/C charger, requires HPWC or J1772 set to 90A or higher. Higher capacity charger in Model X and refresh Model S.
    • 80A on-board A/C charger, requires HPWC or J1772 set to 100A (I don't even know if J1772 can go higher, but HPWC can't; 100A is the max). Higher capacity double charger in pre-refresh Model S, highest A/C charger rate ever available from Tesla, and now discontinued (except for upgrading pre-refresh Model S).
    • Honorable mention: 30A is a common max output for J1772's. That is put on a 40A breaker, something relatively inexpensive to provision at a business.
    These are all 208VAC or 240VAC or so, but also apply to 120VAC circuits. Multiply volts by amps to get watts. Many businesses (most in many areas) have a 208VAC leg instead of a 240VAC leg, and all the vehicle chargers happily input 208VAC and output 208VAC to the car, which happily converts that to its needs. Notice the multiplication of volts by amps gives a lower wattage for 208VAC compared to 240VAC, but that the breaker, wiring, and A/C continuous use amperages stay the same.

    A curiosity is that 277VAC is also available at some businesses, but not all connector-vehicle on-board charger combinations accept that; few if any do. Oh ... I looked it up. Maybe some Teslas can take 277VAC! Awesome. Note that it still maxes out at 20kW, even though 80*277=22,160. Attached screenshot:
    Screen Shot 2017-08-02 at 9.10.52 PM.png
    (The above comes from the newer HPWC's manual, entitled "WALL CONNECTOR, 80A SINGLE PHASE INSTALLATION MANUAL". The older manual for the older HPWC's are still in wide circulation; they do not list 277VAC as a capability: )
    Screen Shot 2017-08-02 at 9.14.58 PM.png

    Also, I'm seeing Model S/X Wall Connector which says max of 240VAC. I wouldn't be surprised if this was outdated marketing material, and the described Wall Connector can do 277VAC.

    My conclusion: if you're looking to be confused, don't be confused about amperage; read the above and learn the way it works. Instead, be confused about voltage :p
     
    • Informative x 4
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  13. SureValla

    SureValla Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Shelton, CT
  14. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    Scottsdale
    And it appears to have a fixed plug. No adapters...
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    18,439
    #15 TEG, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
    I am wondering about Ulmo's chart... I thought the J1772 spec (which Tesla tends to use) advertised an amperage that the charger could use. That 20% reduction is just about the size of the circuit breaker. (Not supposed to use more than 80% of rated capacity for extended periods.)

    Those statements like "The UMC maxes at 40A output (50A input)" seems misleading. I think the car draws 40amps, and that is how much (roughly) comes through the UMC. The UMC doesn't change the amperage... It is mosty just a "passthrough". Now at the far end of your 40A load should be a 50Amp circuit breaker.

    This may just be a case of differences in the way we like to use terminology to describe the same thing.

    If you plug in a UMC with a NEMA 14-50 plug, the UMC may advertise to the car that it shouldn't try to draw more than 40amps.

    If an HPWC is on a 100A breaker, and set to advertise 80amps I think that is the max it can do. I think the spec to advertise ampacity is pretty much maxed out with an 80amp signal.
    Tesla even had to push beyond the original J1772 spec, which was like 64amps max.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,314
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    No, that Mobile Connector with fixed plug has been available for a while now. I've never seen anyone use it though.
    Model S/X Corded Mobile Connector
    It's just another option for charging . The cars still come with UMC.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. 03DSG

    03DSG Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    Cobourg, Ontario
    The fixed plug UMC is not in the online store today. They are however redoing the website.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,906
    Location:
    Northern Virginia, USA
    And I think that's just what he has in his garage. He never installed an HPWC, just a 14-50 and the UMC with the permanent 14-50 plug. Not the best choice for a video that would be splashed all over youtube, I grant you!
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,314
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I doubt he thought people would pick it apart regarding the charging cable.
     
  20. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,906
    Location:
    Northern Virginia, USA
    He's not been around TMC! :D
     
    • Funny x 1

Share This Page