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Long Range: 500 Mile Pack versus Supercharger

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by daniel, May 10, 2012.

  1. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    500 miles is a point at which I'd VERY seriously consider getting rid of the Prius. It would still be less convenient than the stinker. I can park the Prius at a heliport and leave it there for two weeks while I am hiking at a wilderness lodge. With a 500-mile EV I'd have to arrange for a place to plug it in, and then get a ride to and from the heliport. But it would sure be worth considering. The other down side it that it would probably cost $100,000 and I'd really only need it for my once-a-year hiking trip. Unless I traded in the Prius and the Roadster.
     
  2. de704

    de704 XP268

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    Elon musk mentioned that Tesla could make a 500 mile car right now but he didn't think people would want to pay for it especially after the Supercharger Installation announcement to come next month.

    Extra battery would fit in the frunk area.
     
  3. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    I highly doubt there will be a supercharger where I'd need it. But as I said, I'd consider a 500-mile EV, but I don't know if I'd actually buy one, considering how seldom I'd need the range. For right now, 2004 Prius + Roadster is a good solution for me.
     
  4. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Try me, Elon. Please.
     
  5. onlinespending

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    considering you said you only take that long trip once a year, the solution is simple. rent a car. you'd never come close to recouping the money you spent for that extra range that you would only use once a year. Model S + rental for long trips is a solution I plan to adopt until the charging infrastructure is built up.

    back to investment talk. I don't think we're going to see a straight run up at this point. there will be more buying opportunities on some dips. broader market could very well continue to sell off, which will drag TSLA down with it. Plus this remains a heavily shorted and volatile stock.
     
  6. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    For two weeks, you wouldn't need to plug it in, unless you'd completely drained the battery, like really completely. You could still park at the heliport, then when you get back, drive somewhere to charge it. Of course I don't know whether that would be exactly what you need or not, but it sounds plausible. And are you sure there isn't a power point at/near the heliport? Even at 120v/12A, it would be full and balanced when you got back.
     
  7. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    On Canadian Hwy 3, if that's the mid-point of your trips? If you need it a single location, have you thought about sponsoring one? ;)
     
  8. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    for the price of a heli-trip, I guess offering a 40$plug would be cheap service :-D
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Renting a car is definitely better than buying a car for a once-a-year trip. But I like my Roadster better than the Model S, and I have the 2004 Prius, which I need, anyway, because occasionally I need more space than the Roadster has, or for parking at the airport.

    There are ways the Model S could be made to work for the Canada trips, and 500 miles would be MUCH better than 300, since it would mean no charging on the road. But either way, it's a lot more complicated than taking the stinker. When I said I'd consider a 500-mile Model S, it was a knee-jerk reaction. Upon reflection, I'm not a customer for a Model S as long as I can still get in and out of the Roadster.

    Sponsor a charger? I'd have to sponsor four of them. I'd use each one once a year. And I'd need a contractual agreement that they'd be maintained and working, and that on my once-a-year visit I'd have priority. :eek:

    And FWIW, my trips are not heli-hiking. Some of the hiking lodges are helicopter access, but the hiking is all out and back from the lodge.

    I still have my $29 limit order in. I don't expect it to execute, but I'm okay with it either way. There will be lots of wild ups and downs.
     
  10. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    I mentioned it in another thread, but this seems an appropriate one.

    There's a tipping point at which more range isn't nearly as useful as faster recharge. If you could recharge 300 miles in 5 minutes (like an ICE does with gas), more range is all but completely pointless because the time cost for refueling is so small compared to total trip time. That's why I think faster recharge is where the big gains are to be had in adoption and why Elon seems so excited about the super charger. If you can reduce refueling times dramatically and have the price point of electricity, range issues are gone.

    Consider these competing refueling scenarios:
    1) I can recharge ~300 miles in 5-10 minutes for $50-70
    2) I can recharge ~300 miles in 60 minutes for $5-10

    Which would you choose? Most folks would pretty readily take option 2 since the ROI for waiting for the slower refuel is huge. There's a break even point on refueling time vs. cost. If the super charger can get EVs to that break even point, range concerns drop away.
     
  11. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    A 500 mile pack would allow for worry free travel through the desert with the AC on and the cruise control set to 85, for those who do that sort of thing frequently. Also applies to long distances with the heater on. Superchargers will still be needed, but in between you can blast your way through the countryside like the rest of the drivers.
     
  12. thelastdeadmouse

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    To me Supercharger access points seem much more important than a 500 mile pack. If you're able to charge the car in 30-45 minutes no matter where you're driving to and you start with 300 miles of range, for the vast majority of customers 500 miles would offer very little extra benefit. The way that it would be useful is more psychology than utility: 500 miles internal range with supercharging is the point where range anxiety would be a non-issue even for the uninitiated masses.

    Well, that and outlasting the GT classes in enduro races.
     
  13. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I have this odd thing with dependence and like to be as independent as possible. So for my personality, a 500 mile EV is better to me than a supercharger network. 500 miles at around 65mph is about 8 hours of driving. At that point, I'm done driving for the day most likely and can park for the night (home, hotel, campground) and charge up normally (if there's a SC around, great).

    I think the last time I drove that much in a day was likely when I went to my brother's graduation, but even that was like 4 hours one way, so this isn't something I'd need very often, but it would be good to have it #1 just in case I did need to make that trip, but #2, and most important, so that I have buffer in every day things.

    For example, if I want to drive to see family in NYC (often enough), that's about 120 miles one way, so 240 round trip (stretching the limit of the 265 80kwh pack). With a 500 mile pack (likely about 410 miles) I'd have about 160 miles left over, which means when I got there I could drive around or show off the car without worrying about mileage, and that I could drive spiritedly and comfortably without worrying about range impact. For me, it's those little moments of security that would make it worthwhile. Charge fully before I leave, then have a carefree day.
     
  14. Odenator

    Odenator P2607

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    +1

    Absolutely the reason I would want the largest battery pack available regardless of supercharger locations since they will not be located on every street corner. If you don't care to drive like Kipernicus or Outsider, then why not save $60,000 and buy a Leaf or iMev?
     
  15. zack

    zack Member

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    I love to road-trip. For me it would be ideal. I made a portable 70A 240V system for my Roadster, and I would happily adapt it for the Model S or X if I bought one. Which I'm strongly considering. My other car is a Mercedes G55, which I love for it's acceleration and height and safety ability to carry plenty of stuff, but it's almost paid for and selling it will cover a very large chunk of the cost of a 300 mile Model S. 500 miles of range would seal the deal.
     
  16. de704

    de704 XP268

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    I want both
     
  17. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    The utility of the range difference from 24->60kWh is pretty huge. The utility of 85->140kWh(ish) isn't nearly as big.

    People have ICE cars with much, much less range than 500 miles without worries of security or independence because the refueling time is short and readily accessible. If EV refueling were relatively short and readily accessible, the desire for a 500 mile range EV should become irrelevant as it is with an ICE today.

    If someone really wants a 500 mile battery, I'm not going to knock that, but from a value perspective it'd have a very small market of fairly wealthy folks willing to pay for that reduced incremental utility. And a market whose motivating factors (security/independence) will diminish as the charging infrastructure improves.
     
  18. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    With a 500 pack, assuming it can then do speeds much greater than 130 mph, a Model S could compete in some of those NASCAR races?! ;)

    C'mon, Elon, put together a NASCAR team around the Model S!
     
  19. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I have doubts that you would be able to charge overnight at a campground. Let's assume that's a ~145 kWh pack. We're talking at least 15 hours for a full charge on NEMA 14-50. Even an HPC would take 8 hours.
     
  20. zack

    zack Member

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    I could charge it overnight if I could get into a breaker panel. 8^D
     

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