Long-range or Performance

[Thomas Edison]

Track mode or gtfo.

 

[StealthP3D]

The only practical reasons I could think of not getting the m3p is because I need the range (310 vs 250-270~), or if I didn't like the look of the rims and tires.

The only way I would buy a Performance 3 today is if I was willing to buy aftermarket 18" wheels that fit over the Performance brakes (because they are available) and sell the 20" rims and tires in new condition. It's not the "look" that necessitates this, its the impracticality and fragile nature of the 20" rims and tires.

 

[StealthP3D]

I had a LR RWD before. Couldn't stand how sluggish it was (P3D was not available at the time). Then I upgraded to a P3D and never looked back.

I have both a LR and a P3D and the last thing I would call the LR is "sluggish". When I have a passenger I generally only floor the LR if they want me to demonstrate it's acceleration. Or maybe for a freeway merge or passing maneuver but only for a second or two, otherwise you will find yourself in ticket territory before you know it. The P3D is the same way if I have a passenger but more so. When I'm alone I floor it whenever it makes good sense.

 

[Drizzle]

I have both a LR and a P3D and the last thing I would call the LR is "sluggish". When I have a passenger I generally only floor the LR if they want me to demonstrate it's acceleration. Or maybe for a freeway merge or passing maneuver but only for a second or two, otherwise you will find yourself in ticket territory before you know it. The P3D is the same way if I have a passenger but more so. When I'm alone I floor it whenever it makes good sense.

If it doesn't make your balls tingle, it's sluggish

 

[StealthP3D]

If it doesn't make your balls tingle, it's sluggish

Well then, with that definition the P3D is sluggish too. I have three Ducati motorcycles that make my balls tingle, but the P3D doesn't. The P3D is as smooth as glass and easy as pie. Just like the RWD LR but with more cowbell. That's what makes it so amazing, the speed at which it can propel you forward is effortless.

 

[Drizzle]

Well then, with that definition the P3D is sluggish too. I have three Ducati motorcycles that make my balls tingle, but the P3D doesn't. The P3D is as smooth as glass and easy as pie. Just like the RWD LR but with more cowbell. That's what makes it so amazing, the speed at which it can propel you forward is effortless.

If I start from 30 mph and slam it, it makes me tingle about 75% of the time. For some reason it pulls much harder than from starting at 0.

 

[guywithkeyboard]

Well then, with that definition the P3D is sluggish too..

The sad thing is that it's kinda true now. The more I drive my P3D, the slower it feels.

 

[svp6]

Had LR, now P3D-. LR was pretty fast, we traded in because in winter there was too much fishtailing. P3D is a beast. There is still some mild fishtailing though - hopefully this can be corrected through software upgrade. Range loss is larger than advertised, especially in winter. We easily matched rated range with the LR, not so much with the P3D.

If I were to do it all over again - P3D. The smile it puts on my face is priceless.

 

[KenF]

When I bought my car, I would have said performance. However, having experienced a 50% loss in range in 30-40 degree temperatures, and given the upcoming improved acceleration on the LR (325 miles, 5.0s 0-60) via a software update, I think that’s the way to go.

 

[18_Mdl_P3D]

When I bought my car, I would have said performance. However, having experienced a 50% loss in range in 30-40 degree temperatures, and given the upcoming improved acceleration on the LR (325 miles, 5.0s 0-60) via a software update, I think that’s the way to go.

KenF, I have a P3D+ and my experience is nowhere near the level range loss as you are experiencing. My daily use is in town 7-15 mi trips at speeds 35-50 mph. My trip to work is 7.2 or 14.7 mi depending on the which route I take. Last Wed I scheduled my charge to end about the time I needed to go to work. The charging completed a few mins in front of my departure, the outside temp 19F, cabin preheated to 68F while connected to the charger (this is the only time I do preheating). When I left for work had ~95% regen arrived at work with energy usage at 279 Wh/mi. Nine hours later left for home outside temp 25F had snowflake on battery indicator. Arrived at home with energy usage of 399 Wh/mi.

The point of this if you are making lots of short trips in temps less than 45-50F, my experience is the HVAC draws a huge amount of power (I've measured it to be as much as 15kW @ 4F & cabin 68F). Yes the HVAC, the best i've ever seen in a car heats the car to the 68F in ~5mins in single digit temps, but during the period it's drawing 10kW. So if then make a stop, even for 15-20 mins and go again for another 10-15 min drive, the HVAC is drawing for 3-4 mins 10kW again. Now if you were taking a road trip the cabin reaches its temp and the HVAC only needs a fraction of the power to keep it there.

Try driving your car at a cabin of 60F or even off with only the seat heater on. You'll be amazing how much lower the energy usage is; it can >100 Wh/mi with temps below freezing. The day i left work and the temp was 4F my usage was ~650 Wh/mi. That day i calculated the HVAC was drawing ~15kW. The next day went to work temp was -2F and i lower the cabin temp from 68F to 65F and did my preheat technique and arrived at work using 380 Wh/mi.

My charging setup is with a NEMA 14-50R connector, and when i'm doing charging and cabin preheat the charge rate 0 mph while i'm drawing the full 7.6kW; it's all going to the HVAC, plus another 2kW from the battery. Once the cabin gets to close to the set temp the charging will begin ramping up to 20mph (normal for NEMA 14-50 is 29-30 mph). So 9-10 mph of the charging is simply used to maintain the cabin temp. And this is in a garage that was at 26F (outside temp -2F). So this can give everyone a feel of how much the HVAC affects range. Besides speed this is the second biggest drain on the battery (unless it's very windy; it too can affect it nearly as much as HVAC @ highways speeds).

Can't wait till spring get here!

 

[KenF]

The point of this if you are making lots of short trips in temps less than 45-50F, my experience is the HVAC draws a huge amount of power (I've measured it to be as much as 15kW @ 4F & cabin 68F). Yes the HVAC, the best i've ever seen in a car heats the car to the 68F in ~5mins in single digit temps, but during the period it's drawing 10kW. So if then make a stop, even for 15-20 mins and go again for another 10-15 min drive, the HVAC is drawing for 3-4 mins 10kW again. Now if you were taking a road trip the cabin reaches its temp and the HVAC only needs a fraction of the power to keep it there.

For me, efficiency is poor unless I (1) charge immediately before departure and (2) do not use the HVAC. In my particular situation, I have free charging at work so I do not use my home charger except in emergencies. Disabling HVAC is not realistic when it is 20-40 degrees.

I do not have an enclosed garage. Without pre-charging and with the HVAC set to 68 degrees, efficiency is a consistent 425-475 wh/m during my daily 7-9 mile commute. If I pre-charge and disable my HVAC, efficiency is 300-350 wh/m. In contrast, a co-worker has a LR RWD with a similar commute, and their efficiency is closer to 250 wh/m under similar conditions.

I will try the HVAC set to 60 degrees to see if that makes a difference. Even so, based on my experience thus far, I cannot in good conscience recommend a P3D or P3D Model 3 to someone that lives in an area with a cooler climate.

 

[wenkan]

I tested LR and owning a P. I would say it highly depends on your usage pattern. Don’t upgrade to P if you really want more range. Otherwise choose the speed is always enjoyable.

 

[DrDabbles]

If you're concerned at all with range or wheel fitment, don't get the Performance. If money is a concern, absolutely don't get the performance. Tires and wheels for the Performance are very expensive, and replacing pads and rotors will be much more expensive than the other Model 3 variants.

 

[MagnusMako]

It's not the "look" that necessitates this, its the impracticality and fragile nature of the 20" rims and tires.

Are the rims really that fragile? I've heard mixed opinions but I guess it depends more on where you live in terms of how susceptible you are to potholes.

 

[roblab]

All this and then add, Range is the most important commodity. The Model 3 single motor does everything the others do but a whale of a lot longer. The only car that beats a 3 is another 3.

It is obvious there are two types of people: Those that get their kicks by beating everyone else off the line, and those who get their kicks by beating everyone else off the line AND going near 318 miles on top of that.

I own one. And NOthing beats that!

 

[StealthP3D]

Are the rims really that fragile? I've heard mixed opinions but I guess it depends more on where you live in terms of how susceptible you are to potholes.

It's not that the rims are so much more fragile - it's that they are not protected against impact with enough sidewall (of the tire). Low profile tires are for looks. You can get great, sporty cornering performance from a 235/45 series 18" tire. Just buy a good performance tire.

I don't live in an area with an excessive number of potholes (our local governments know it's more cost effective to resurface or do spot repairs before they get to that point) but I still don't think low profile tires are suitable for public roads because hazards exist everywhere. It could be a 2x4 that fell out of the back of a truck or a rock that rolled down a roadside embankment. Sometimes the item is kicked up by traffic in front and is bouncing erratically as you approach. If there is traffic close behind, you don't have the option of braking and trying to miss it is largely luck because it can take a funny bounce right when you think you have successfully steered around it.

I also find that more sidewall gives more predictable cornering, low profile tires tend to release on pavement imperfections because they don't have enough compliance to form around the irregularity.

 

[Malbrough]

I have the performance Model 3 with 18 inch wheels. I prefer the softer, but still sporty ride of the 18s. Still, I think the long range RWD version is the best bang for the buck if you don't need AWD.

BTW, these 18 inch wheels fit the P3D+: 18

 

[DDotJ]

The only way I would buy a Performance 3 today is if I was willing to buy aftermarket 18" wheels that fit over the Performance brakes (because they are available) and sell the 20" rims and tires in new condition. It's not the "look" that necessitates this, its the impracticality and fragile nature of the 20" rims and tires.

That's what I did yesterday. I got the flow forged 18" rims from TSportline and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires.

I hit two potholes in 3 months and bent two rims (twice). Luckily Tesla did not have the 20-in rims and stock so ended up just damaging my already bent rims even more. I Even had a bubble form in the sidewall of my tire and had to replace that too. And the replacement tires and rims were way too expensive so I decided to just buy the 18-inch aftermarket rims and all season tires which are much cheaper in the 18" size

 

[StealthP3D]

That's what I did yesterday. I got the flow forged 18" rims from TSportline and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires.

View attachment 382496

I hit two potholes in 3 months and bent two rims (twice). Luckily Tesla did not have the 20-in rims and stuck so I bent my bend rims even more. I Even had a bubble form in the sidewall of my tire and had to replace that too. and the replacement tires and rims were way too expensive so I decided to just buy the 18-inch aftermarket rims and all season tires which are much cheaper in the 18" size

Those look great!

 

[Lemonpie889]

RWD! 325 and sub-5 0-60. Unless you need AWD, it’s the best deal

325? Where is that figure coming from? Even with the 5% boost, I think HP comes in at less than 300.