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Long-term outlook for MobilEye-based AP1?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Kross, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Kross

    Kross Member

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    As the title asks, I'm wondering what the long-term outlook is for cars that have AP1, which uses MobilEye tech, especially now that Tesla is developing its own AP-tech with AP2.

    Does this mean that AP1 cars will not receive any updates to their AP system down the line at any point, while the rest of the car's systems continue to be updated over-the-air?

    Also, what happens if MobilEye goes out of business? Does any support for AP1 software/hardware also fall by the wayside for owners?

    I'm thinking that most of my questions here are based on my limited understanding of the original Tesla-MobilEye partnership to begin with. For example, did the partnership state that Tesla has complete ownership of the MobilEye software/hardware on its AP1 cars, once it is live on them after their production? As in, Tesla owns the code/tech for its cars. Or is the AP1 software/hardware licensed on an ongoing basis from MobilEye and they can screw Tesla down the line if they so wish?
     
  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Unlikely, because it is now owned by Intel.

    Even if it is out of business, as long as you are still under warranty, Tesla is still obligated to fulfill AP1 promise of hands-free freeway driving from on-ramp to off-ramp with no additional charge.

    Once, that promise is fulfilled, Tesla will have the right to stop upgrading AP1.

    There's a dispute of ownership: MobilEye it should own whatever Tesla gains with its hardware (such as mapping, Teslavision...) but Tesla disagreed, thus the partnership broke up and there is no enforcement of any agreement (there's no agreement on MobilEye's demand of ownership for enforcement.)
     
  3. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Most people here believe the AP1 development is dead.

    I am not one of them, and I believe that to the extent that Tesla can improve the AP1 software suite, they will.
     
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  4. Alex D

    Alex D Member

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    I have my doubts that we will ever see on-ramp to off-ramp driving on AP1. There might be some little improvements over time for stability, better lane keeping, smoother auto lane change and TACC, but on-off? Wouldn't they already have implemented that if they would be able to pull it off with the AP1 hardware suit?
    Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome and as an AP1 owner I would seriously appreciate the feature. I just don't believe they will come through on this promise anymore.
     
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  5. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    I agree.
    I saw some new detail behaviours with AP1 on 17.26.76, which coincidentally arrived just as I picked up my AP2 vehicle.
    Intriguingly these same behaviours were present on the AP2 vehicle.

    Speculation for sure - but I wonder if Tesla are harmonising the high level code between AP1 and AP2 with a hardware abstraction leayer underneath. The logic of this would be stremalined code development for both current hardware platforms and potentially future ones too.

    If this were true, then AP1 owners would continue to benefit from Tesla's increasing experience which would be great news and also supports Elon statement a while back that AP1 development was ongoing.
     
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  6. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Oh geeze, yeah, I totally agree with this. We won't see significantly improved performance like ramp on-off.. and I'm OK with that (is it really that important, anyway??).

    I'm talking more about tweaks to improve what already is a rock-solid product/release.
     
  7. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    Continue to embarrass AP2?
     
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  8. X Fan

    X Fan Supporting Member

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    AP1 is a great product and even if not improved one bit from now I'd still be happy.....now, if they could only improve my XM, USB and Nav experience.......
     
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  9. doubleohwhat

    doubleohwhat Supporting Member

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    The MobilEye chip (EyeQ3) in the AP1 cars is supposed to be capable of detecting traffic lights:
    http://www.mobileye.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/eyeq_info.png

    While I don't think we'll see full AP interactivity with traffic lights. I suspect in the future we may see something like an audible tone if you're the first person at a light that has turned green yet you haven't moved.
     
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  10. mbhforum

    mbhforum Member

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    Honestly, I'd rather get software updates to improve the software inside the car such as better Bluetooth, Spotify integration, app mirroring and better navigation than improvements to AP 1.0. Overall im satisfied with AP but I cannot say the same for inside the car.
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I never noticed that on that graphic, but it say "(US)" which I presume would mean "USA only"? So far there is zero evidence any automaker had used that part of the chip. But for something like alerts, I guess even if it is not that reliable it might still be useful (as long as it can be toggled off in case there are annoying false positives).
     
  12. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Elon specifically said that anything that can be ported back to AP1 cars will be in answer to a question a few months back. Obviously, we'll never get a lot of the things that AP2 cars will get, but Tesla is committed to taking things they learn on AP2 back to AP1 when they apply.

    I don't really expect to see many (any?) new driver assistance features added to my AP1 X going forward (still hoping for red light/stop sign detection/warning, though I really don't use AP in those environments often,) but I am expecting them to continue to refine AP1's already very polished delivery as they learn more.

    (I'm also planning to upgrade after they demonstrate real self driving, at least level 3 but preferably level 4 or 5, and do a few of the fairly obvious upgrades that have to be coming sometime (2170 cells, Xavier, etc) - likely in a year or two. Hopefully I can afford it...)
     
  13. Brunton

    Brunton Pontificating the obvious

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    I'm thinking it already does, but I suspect that they haven't been able to make it reliable enough to implement in the fleet. I'll be very surprised if they ever do.
    {now watch. Next week all us AP1 owners will see flawless traffic light recognition. I'd happily be wrong.}
     
  14. smilepak

    smilepak Active Member

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    I think they will abandon AP1 eventually once AP2 becomes mainstream. We're just beta tester that instead of being pay to do it, we pay them so we can do it.

    The cost of early adopters is to pay it forward
     
  15. smilepak

    smilepak Active Member

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    Have driven from states to states and cities to cities, there are so many variations how a traffic signal look like and can be positioned. Not to mention some hangs on wires while other in post.

    With that much variation and volatility, i ain't trusting MobileEye traffic light detection anytime soon on AP1. I'll still use it on road trip but not too confident with local roads
     
  16. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    It seems likely that the current AP2 software is basically the same source code as AP1, with most of the differences related to the replacement of MobilEye's sensors & software with the new AP2 sensors and Tesla Vision. If that's the case, then AP1 should continue to see some improvements, at least for a while, as AP2 catches up to AP1.

    FSD may be different source code, designed to run on the new NVidia Drive PX2 processor - and as the FSD becomes closer to operational, we could see a switch for EAP from the AP1 variant to a version of FSD that's been software limited to only 4 of the cameras and requiring a driver to periodically contact the steering wheel. If this is Tesla's strategy, then once EAP is using the FSD software and NVidia processors, there may not be much common code for AP1 - and at that point, AP1 development will likely slow down considerably, perhaps changes only if there is a major bug or a safety issue.

    Realistically, AP1 has limitations due to the lack of processor power and sensors - so AP1 owners shouldn't expect much more beyond what Tesla originally promised (which hasn't been completely delivered - yet).
     
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  17. BrettS

    BrettS Member

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    This is conceivable, but given the fact that AP2 has extra cameras and more processing power and is capable of doing much more than AP1 with that hardware I question whether this approach would make sense.
     
  18. Kross

    Kross Member

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    This would be cool! I would love to see some interaction. Even if it's as simple as "Hold Steering Wheel - Traffic Light detected".
     
  19. Kross

    Kross Member

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    As a relatively new owner, I'm not aware of what was initially promised (hence might not be completely delivered yet). Can you expand on this? What might still be in the pipeline for AP1 that had been a part of the initial feature outline?
     
  20. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    The car was supposed to change speed up and down with speed limit changes (demonstrated during the initial announcement test drives,) and come meet you on private property (as in Summon in more than a pure straight line.)

    I'm not aware of anything else that was promised and hasn't arrived, though some folks on the forum feel like the addition of hold steering wheel prompts that weren't there initially in response to NHTSA requirements is somehow a broken promise.
     
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