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Looking at the used market for a Tesla Model S

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
5,758
2,893
Suffolk, UK
Is the 75 battery affected by these battery/charge-gate issues? What about the 100?

All those (AFAIK) have a D/C Charging counter, and will throttle D/C charges once over threshold - but it is only a little bit, and increases progressively thereafter, but not dramatically.

Are there any 100 cars out there that came with free supercharging for life?

Pretty sure the early ones were before it changed from "car lifetime" to "ownership"

Is it important to you? If you have off road parking (and home charging) then as a means of avoiding home charging cost you are going to be sat at Supercharger for a very long time (at best an hour for every 300 miles or so) ... and charging at home off-peak is usually less than 5p a mile, and can be down to around 2p a mile, so £15-ish an hour.

If you are road-tripping a lot then you'd be saving the Supercharger fee - £0.24 per kWh in UK - assuming 3 miles / kWh then 8p per mile and at best, 300 miles per hour, that's £24 an hour.
 

vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,021
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
We are looking for a used MS too. Ideally a 85/90 variant. From my hours of research so far I am struggling to understand how you can assess objectively the condition of the battery ie both its current capacity and whether charging rate has been throttled or might be in the near future? I don't want to buy a car I'm expecting to take x mins to supercharge only to find it takes x + 20 or worse down the line. There appears to be no resource available to find out for sure and Tesla are hopeless if you phone them and you are not the owner.
Is the 75 battery affected by these battery/charge-gate issues? What about the 100? Thanks.
Are there any 100 cars out there that came with free supercharging for life?

Although there are some that would not agree with me, I personally would be inclined to buy (as we did in the end) from Tesla's used inventory. The warranty has more than returned any premium we paid and with fears over MCU1 longevity, its value may yet be relied upon again. I hope it will also help support the resale price if we sell before it expires. Although I have no proof, kinda think Tesla wouldn't pass on a car with a throttled battery. I also suspect that being a Tesla-supplied car the service centre go the extra mile - as they have with us. But that's all speculative.

One problem with inventory used cars (CPOs) since we bought ours last May is that cars resold by Tesla are now stripped of free supercharging for life. But is it really that valuable? Let's say you use 1000kWh of supercharging a year; that's only £240.

Most complaints do centre-around the 85 battery. Ours is the 70 (same cell chemistry) and while supercharging has slowed a bit because of re-profiling of the charge rate by Tesla, it wasn't mega fast to start with as 70 batteries are 350V instead of 400V. But its pretty clear that no matter which battery, if you abuse it then it will get throttled eventually. Our 'Typical' miles range has only dropped 1-2 miles in 11,000 miles, but we only use supercharging for long trips (reached almost 900kWh in 11,000 miles vs 3400kWh AC charging mostly at home @5p/kWh - about £170).

If you really must have free supercharging for life then Richard Symons in Bournemouth comes highly rated (not very convenient for you in Edinburgh!) for used Teslas. I would not buy from a non-specialist 3rd party dealer and even some that do specialise in Tesla look dodgy.

PS I forgot - not only is free supercharging stripped from Tesla resold inventory but so is the free 'premium' mobile data connectivity - you only get 30 days worth.
 
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WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
5,758
2,893
Suffolk, UK
cars resold by Tesla are now stripped of free supercharging for life

Mine has just popped up for sale, and as you say it is pay-as-you-go Supercharging.

Tesla have had it for over 3 months, put barely 200 miles on it, not offered it for sale. What have they been doing with it I wonder?

Its listed at 10% above what they gave me for it.

'premium' mobile data connectivity - you only get 30 days worth.

Hadn't spotted that ... so listed at 10% over, and a further "saving" of several £hundred p.a. compared to my usage. I couldn't find a buyer anywhere near to the Trade In £££ ... maybe that is why ...

Although there are some that would not agree with me

FWIW If I was buying 2nd hand I would be doing exactly as you described.
 
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markharro

Member
Feb 14, 2020
136
28
Edinburgh
Thanks @vitesse - regarding Tesla's own used inventory it just annoys me that they strip out benefits that you can get if you buy privately. Its also not ideal that you don't even get to see even photos of the car before you purchase. The positive I agree is the enhanced warranty.

Yes R Symons are very good and one of the few dealers who actually understand all the subtleties. It's definitely caveat emptor looking elsewhere. Even private owner don't appear to understand the basics it seems. One car I am looking at atm was registered in May 17 and yet the owner appears to be asserting that it both has free SC and that this is transferable. My understanding is that the first part of this could be correct (for him) but not the transferability?
 

vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,021
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
Thanks @vitesse - regarding Tesla's own used inventory it just annoys me that they strip out benefits that you can get if you buy privately. Its also not ideal that you don't even get to see even photos of the car before you purchase. The positive I agree is the enhanced warranty.

Yes R Symons are very good and one of the few dealers who actually understand all the subtleties. It's definitely caveat emptor looking elsewhere. Even private owner don't appear to understand the basics it seems. One car I am looking at atm was registered in May 17 and yet the owner appears to be asserting that it both has free SC and that this is transferable. My understanding is that the first part of this could be correct (for him) but not the transferability?

You do get to see a large gallery of photos, including external and internal 360 views and any blemishes will be highlighted. I'm pretty sure my car came with a new set of tyres and refurbished wheels.

There were some special offers on cars sold after the end of the free supercharging 'era' but I don't know if they would be transferable.

In the end I, personally, would ignore any dissatisfaction with Tesla's policies and concentrate on the actual values of the specific deals.
 

markharro

Member
Feb 14, 2020
136
28
Edinburgh
More (basic) questions on potential MS purchase - 2017 AP2 car. What is premium connectivity and is it part of "premium interior"? The spec sheet states "autopilot hardware" but no mention of EAP! Is it possible to buy an AP2 car that has the hardware fitted but no usable AP at all because the first owner didn't pay for it? I thought all AP2 cars came with EAP as a default and you then had to decide if you paid more for FSD? Thanks
 

vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,021
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
More (basic) questions on potential MS purchase - 2017 AP2 car. What is premium connectivity and is it part of "premium interior"? The spec sheet states "autopilot hardware" but no mention of EAP! Is it possible to buy an AP2 car that has the hardware fitted but no usable AP at all because the first owner didn't pay for it? I thought all AP2 cars came with EAP as a default and you then had to decide if you paid more for FSD? Thanks

There are basically 3 generations of the AP hardware - gen.2/2.5 uses nVidia hardware and my understanding is that if the car has the licence for FSD this hardware will be replaced by Tesla FOC for the Tesla custom IC gen 3 hardware, though you don't get to choose when the upgrade happens.

As it stands, my feeling is that gen 1 (MobileEye) hardware and AP1 does what it does best (less jerky and less likely to do something surprising like brake for no apparent reason) but AP2 can do more, if in a less refined and even secure manner.

FSD is a totally different ball game and to my knowledge it's not yet functional on the road though you get a slightly more advanced remote summon and auto parking to play woth while you wait for FSD to be delivered and to be allowed on European roads - which could be some time.
 

vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,021
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
If you are buying from Tesla's used stock, their recent policy has been to strip extras like premium connectivity and free supercharging from cars that they resell.In the past it has been the other way around!
 

markharro

Member
Feb 14, 2020
136
28
Edinburgh
Thanks yes but my query was actually to do with the functionality that you can expect to be enabled where a car fitted with AP2 hardware from 2017 simply states on the spec sheet "Autopilot hardware"? ie no mention of EAP.
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,913
1,953
Bath, UK
Tesla can offer finance, whereas private sellers can't. There is also the illusion that buying direct from Tesla (or any dealer) gives you much more security. It does in some cases, but it is not a panacea for all problems experienced.

I'm buying my Model 3 outright in cash and will probably end up selling in 2-3 years, and have this pain to look forward to :(
 

vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,021
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
Tesla can offer finance, whereas private sellers can't. There is also the illusion that buying direct from Tesla (or any dealer) gives you much more security. It does in some cases, but it is not a panacea for all problems experienced.

I'm buying my Model 3 outright in cash and will probably end up selling in 2-3 years, and have this pain to look forward to :(
We also bought our car for cash after a windfall. The Tesla warranty reboot has already paid for itself for us (major front suspension rebuild) and also means we have less anxiety about door handles and the MCU failing. If we sell with a year/miles remaining it should help to sell the car on.

On the other hand we should have bought the car on finance and invested the cash in Tesla shares :D We'd be able to buy a brand new one today LOL
 
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markharro

Member
Feb 14, 2020
136
28
Edinburgh
@vitesse here is the Spec sheet - maybe you can see why I am puzzled by what the AP includes?
 

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vitesse

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,021
285
Hertfordshire (UK)
If there is no mentioned of Autopilot being enabled, I'd suggest it's not been purchased for that car.

Are you able to inspect the car? It will be very easy to see if AP is enabled or not.

The spec. list is from the initial purchase and it's possible AP was added later.

Is this car being sold privately/dealer or by Tesla?
 

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