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Discussion in 'California' started by Popsmuf, Aug 19, 2014.
Looking for someone to coat my MS. Any suggestions for a local detailer in OC?
Thanks in advance
There are some really good paint correction pros in the O.C. area. Looks like Lucci Elite is now doing Modesta. Eric Schuster of Envious detailing used to do 22ple but looks like he has switched over to CQuartz which is also excellent coating (could ask him to do 22ple I guess).
Almost mentioned Tuan but he's in Rosemead. I know, not the other end of the earth. Nobody's been doing Modesta very long in the U.S. but Tuan since about end of last year or start of this year. I think he is not quite as experienced in paint correction as some of the others so may depend on how much paint correction you need prior to coating. You'll need to check out their work and decide for yourself, of course.
Tuan applied Opti Guard to my "other" car last year before he started doing Modesta.
Tuan from Glosswork has been doing Modesta the longest and is a great detailer.
Contact Moe at glistening perfection. Best detailer in Orange County. He's on the forums every so often. Very honest and will tell you exactly how it is.
We install CQuartz Finest and Modesta if you're interested. We've had great results with both coatings. But the real result is in the paint correction. You need to have a pristine and flawless paint surface before ANY coating. Hope that helps.
Wow, Modesta is quickly gaining traction despite the big price tag.
Moe, last time I heard you were using a kind of hybrid coating - maybe wax and silica? I cannot recall the name. Did you bail on that for Modesta? I am really curious to know how Modesta holds up against normal wear and tear as opposed to OG (which I still feel makes chipping more likely because not slick enough). Would be interested to hear real life experiences at some point for comparisons.
Update: Show Car Detailing in Anaheim seems to be doing some Modesta coatings now too.
I have put it on myself twice now. It's real easy to do yourself - much easier than waxing. I'm really impressed with the shine -- it really looks like it's coated in glass -- and I like how the water really beads off of it. I never did any paint correction (just the spray bottle thing like in the video below using a mixture of 50% Isopropyl Alcohol with 50% distilled water) but then again I applied it the first time right when I got the car. I plan to reapply it every six months so after buying the kit (not needed) I just ordered the large bottle:
VX1 Pro Glass Coating 50ML
WAX-IT - Do It Yourself - 22ple VX1 PRO Application - YouTube
We were using a hybrid carnauba/nano product from Germany. At our company, we're constantly evolving and looking for better products that are unique and offer great value. At moment, the #1 coating we offer and apply is CQuartz Finest. The product itself is amazing but what really sold me on the coating had nothing to do with the coating. It had to do with the people behind it and the infrastructure already in place. Never before, and I've been doing this for almost 20 years, had I seen honest, passionate, and knowledgeable group of installers with the greatest integrity come together to form a very exclusive team that had the client's best interest in mind. When you're a part of something like that, you know you're associated with high quality products with high quality standards. So, that was a no-brainer for us.
As for Modesta, it promised the latest technology, performance, and exclusivity. Between the two coatings we offer, each has its pros and cons, it's nice for us to be able to offer both and give that choice to our clients. In the end, it comes down to value and service. Our company has always been known for specializing in Porsches, and now we've added Tesla to that mix. Specializing in these two brands has made us an industry leader because of our technical know-how. This is great value for the owner of these cars because the work being done under our roof was specifically tailored to these two brands and how we perform the work give us an amazing competitive advantage in how we care for these cars. So choosing what products we feel are correct for these cars, is now more of a science of how they behave with these cars, and not marketing hype.
Nano products such as CQuartz and Modesta are a completely different technology than a product like opticoat or optiguard. The look, feel, and how it behaves to the elements are different. There is simply not a coating out there that can be applied once, and is permanent, and will not require any further care. If anyone is making that claim, that's to me is not being responsible and they're doing a dis-service to their client. It's like me telling you there's this soap that you use, and you'll never have to shower or bathe again. Your vehicle is in the elements all the time as a daily driver. It NEEDS routine care to stay clean, protected, and simply looking nice. We educate our clients to care for their vehicle as they do themselves. You go to your dentist routinely because you eat everyday. You get a check up of your body routinely because you care and want to prevent anything before it happens. IMHO, you should have the same routine for your car.
Yes, but my disappointment with OG was not that it doesn't last forever. I wanted a coating that would generally look "good", make wash maintenance easier to cut down on wash marring, and be the sacrificial barrier to preserve as much OEM paint as possible. I always figured at some point the OG would need some follow up polishing and maybe re-application. I simply did not like the physical characteristics and behavior of the coating on the paint that I observed. To me it's not just about how a coating looks the day it is applied.
On an interesting side note, I saw something yesterday about how Optimum has modified their product line and warranty statement. I'm not saying they don't have some good products (I use ONRWW all the time and I've used their Protectant Plus on trim), or that the particular product doesn't work for everybody, or that it was or wasn't true that their coating would remain on the paint for a "lifetime" (meaning longer than most people keep their cars). However, I do think they are trying to respond to the criticism from pro detailers who are frustrated with consumers thinking that no future care is required. Let's face it, detailers probably can't make a living putting a coating on a car once and then never have any repeat business for maintenance.
Since every coating or wrap is supposed to be a sacrificial barrier, not only is it supposed to help protect against certain contamination, it is also taking the brunt of UV damage or oxidation. Thus, to some extent it is being broken down gradually over time (instead of the paint), consistent with Moe's observation about ongoing care and maintenance. I don't think people should believe that Paint Protection Film should stay on a car "forever" either, despite any "lifetime" warranty claims about that.
Again, people in O.C. (and some other areas) are lucky because they have many more options.
Well-said. We never got on the opti-coat band wagon for a few reasons, but the main one was I couldn't look a client in the face and offer them a "lifetime" warranty, when I knew most wouldn't keep their cars for more than a few years and would never end up using the warranty. I also firmly believe there are products that are "professional" for several reasons...anyone can pick up a coating, apply it over a paint that has swirls and scratches and get the benefits of the coating for a period of time. If that's what you want, guess what...there are products that are sold to DIYers. But when you consider VALUE and future care and proper maintenance, you need a relationship with a trusting and knowledgeable detailing professional that does this for a living..a career. I know how to use scissors and know how to floss my teeth...but I'm not going to miss my hair appointment with my stylist next month or my dentist appointment in two months
I know we've lost a few potential clients here and there because we didn't use certain products. That's not what I'm here for; parents can relate...you're a parent first, then a friend to your kids. Our clients' cars are their babies, and we've been entrusted to care for them when the client is not around. When you look at things in that light, and all my staff has learned that vision, your decisions and level of care suddenly becomes more personal. It's unfortunate what is happening with Optimum and how they've shifted their business model as it relates to coatings. I have a feeling they'll lose some talented installers and that is what makes/breaks a product. Ultimately, there will be three losers. Installer, manufacturer, but more importantly, the consumer.
It takes something for a business to last the times. Our company has grown from me doing this part-time from the back of my 1993 Honda Accord as a way to pay for college. This was my plan B, and I'm so glad I chose it. We're always in the pursuit of perfection. That journey is challenging and rewarding at the same time. When you come to our shop, you quickly see what our mission is and how we go about carrying that torch. We call it our culture and our clients call it "GP Certified".
Moe (and anyone else that has good info),
What do you think about applying C.Quartz Finest, Modesta, etc. over Xpel Ultimate? I've heard different folks say different things. What I've kind of settled on based on what feels like honest, experience based opinions is that nothing extra is strictly necessary (not that *any* of this is *strictly* necessary), but that a good sealant that is compatible (specific solvent wise) with Xpel Ultimate *will* add some extra gloss and protection to the car. That said, I was told that while C.Quartz would absolutely work and enhance the wrap, that it would not bond as well as it would directly, and that I could expect maybe a year before I'd want to consider reapplying. Alternately, it was suggested that a less expensive and protective sealer, such as CarPro Reload would last 6 months or so, look just as good (perhaps could tell the difference side by side… maybe), and cost less over time due to it's own and application costs. The detailer would be happy to do either or nothing extra and absolutely pushes C.Quartz on exposed paint, but for his own car decided to use Reload on the Xpel covered areas.
Thoughts? This sound basically right, or do you dissent? I'm interested in not just day 1 looks, but looks and ongoing costs per year several years down the road.
Thanks in advance - really appreciate the value of your experience.
sorry it's me again chiming in
I think pretty much all of the PPF mfrs seem to recommend SOME kind of last stage sealant or wax (usually synthetic vs petroleum based) even on their top coated films. I too have heard many different opinions about putting glass/ceramic coatings over PPF. Until recently I didn't see anybody having installed Modesta over PPF although plenty of people had put CQuartz, Opti Guard/Coat, GTechniq, 22ple and plenty of other coatings. .
I look at it like an expense layer cake. The layer on the bottom is most expense/hassle to replace (your paint). The next one is either PPF or coating. On top of that, a sealant. So the layer on top is whatever you consider to be the most "expendable" sacrificial barrier. Each successive layer down is what you hope to keep in the best shape for the longest time.
Based on everything I've seen/read, if I had most or all of the car in PPF, and unless the major decison factor was to materially alter the appearance or trying to actually reduce drag on surface (as perhaps can be achieved by some of the Modesta coatings if the claims are true) I'd go with a sealant and just maintain that over the PPF. There are a lot of sealants that get good mention. One that's been around a while that always comes to mind is Menzerna Power Lock.
The thing I have gleaned from monitoring many, many opinions and experiences shared publicly by either pro detailers or other consumers is that there doesn't seem to be just one thing that protects perfectly from everything. By that, for example, I mean all of them will excel at protecting from general moisture penetration. Some will hold up better against certain chemicals and aggressive cleaners and others will fail quickly. Oddly enough, the weakness of some glass/ceramic coatings seems to be the "hard water spots" on any place where water manages to stick and dry. I found that to be true of Opti Guard and so a lot of people end up putting things like Reload or Power Lock over the glass coats to counter-balance that particular weakness. Weakness of wax is most likely chemicals where glass/ceramic holds up much better.
For the reason of Achilles Heel issue I was intrigued by some of the hybrid wax/ceramic coatings that were coming out of Germany recently but it seems those are not catching on. It's the glass/ceramic coats that are the hot products now.
It can seem like a never-ending cycle but it probably depends on what is most offensive to you and against which you want to most protect and based on whatever weakness, if any, of the film's topcoat.
I still wish somebody would come up with one of these sealants or coatings that magically sheets water off more than it beads water. Last thing I want is ANY beads sitting there for any length of time.
Great question. The more porous the surface, the more densely packed nano products can bond. PPF can definitely benefit from a nano coating. There is a company, NanoFusion, that is making clear bra that is infused with nano. The results are amazing and the film does repel things. It's got a bit too much orange peel for me, but otherwise, may be a solid film...time will tell.
As for putting nano on clear bra, I haven't heard of negative results yet. With products like CQuartz Reload, I'm not sure why anyone would still want to wax or seal their clear bra. Reload is so effective, easy to use, and adds an amazing amount of shine and gloss, it's the ideal choice. Plus, it can be used on the rest of the painted surfaces. Applying the actual nano coatings will also further protect the film. That's why we include it on our advanced and full wrap clear bra installations. If it were my car, initial nano coating on clear bra, then maintain with Reload.
Most important of all....wash using an all-natural lambs wool mitt and a gentle soap. Dry using quality terry microfiber towels, not chamois, cotton bath towels, cheap microfiber towels. Tesla paint is very soft and needs all the precaution it can get
Moe - I think you may be referring to the Avery Nano Fusion PPF? That is actually what Tesla puts on if ordered from factory. I'm not sure if that varies by region or is still consistent but that is what was installed on mine last yr. It repels fairly well. They still recommended something as sealant/topper though. Yes, can have orange peel look. Not something you see nearly as much on the rear bumper sections and honestly not always so visible on the hood except certain light and angles. Better than rock chips but not sure it's what I'd choose as replacement PPF. Again, the product may vary based on bulk film vs custom kits. Don't really know.
As I understand it, either coatings or sealants (and synthetic waxes) can all use "nano" technology. To me, difference is a coating will add some measurable thickness and sealant does not, yet either of them could "seal" pores. Coatings are more durable.
I also think a lot of sealant products out there (and some coatings) are basically the same thing and sold under different brand names with repackaging or slightly different variations. It's very difficult to tell since they don't have to disclose anything that is not required to be disclosed as "hazardous" to some degree, I believe.
I don't doubt there is a lot of hair splitting with regard to how some products are labeled or described as sealant vs. coating but what's more important to me is hearing the real life experiences people have with the products such as what Moe imparts here as well as some others may do similarly with other products.
Some will say "oh you can't put that over PPF" and they don't indicate any direct experience with having done it.
I Highly Reccomend Richard Lin of show car detailing in Anaheim. He does really great work and has been using modesta for a while now.
We're going to use Show Car Detailing during a trip in the area. Richard's been great to deal with via email. Glad to see your recommendation. We would have done it Scottsdale, but the timing of the car delivery and the planned trip didn't allow for the Opticoat. We're getting tint and PPF just before the trip.
I am the only Authorized 22ple detailer in the OC
Please contact me if you need anything 22ple