How would two meters work with paired storage? I.e., if I have 2 Powerwalls can they serve both systems? Or would I have to dedicate them to on or the other system or split them up?
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Looking for definitive answer: Does the 20 year NEM lock get reset when a new NEM2 system is added to a NEM1 system?
- Thread starter RKCRLR
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That is my understanding but I don't know if they'd let me do that retroactively. If I could do it retroactively I'd like to see what really happens with NEM3 to see if it justifies the cost. And I'd still need to understand how 2 meters works with paired storage.
I also have a soon to be 15 year old system. If the systems are counted on their first PTO then the best course of action for me to avoid NEM 3 to replace both systems.
I still haven't heard back from PG&E with either a confirmation or reversal of the information I was given by solar support people.
I suspect one would have to be very careful to cancel the first PTOs and then apply for a new PTO. Even then the language is vague and subject to their interpretation of "original year" and "Generating Facility". To be clear, I am not advocating such an interpretation but my experience with two IOUs over the years causes me to be a pessimist in matters like this.
I have a similar situation but mine is on an apartment building with separate meters and I might consider cancelling the 12 year old PTO on the one residential meter, swinging it to a commercial meter and applying for a PTO on the commercial meter. So far it seems that commercial systems are not subject to the same per kW of installed solar that residential systems are. All that could also change.
there was some talk a couple of years ago that getting PTO for powerwalls under NEM2 (if you were a NEM1 customer) would reset the grandfathering. i did call in to PGE's solar center at that time and after some conflicting answers from lower-level CSRs, i was told by a "supervisor" that this would not reset the clock. so i abandoned my quest to get PTO under NEM2 and instead filled out the NEM1 forms.
this may or may not be specific to adding storage, so YMMV if you are adding panels...
this may or may not be specific to adding storage, so YMMV if you are adding panels...
I responded to the PG&E email asking if I could retroactively install a meter to separate the two different sunset dates. The representative responded that it is not possible to do it retroactively. She responded to call the solar department at system 877-743-4112 for further questions. Ironically, that is the number I called multiple times that provided what appears to be incorrect information and refused to confirm the information they gave me in writing.
FWIW I just called the PG&E solar department again 1-877-743-4112 again and once again I'm being told that my grandfather date starts/resets with the newest system date. Of course I still can't get it writing.
Try filing an online complaint with the CPUC about not being able to get it in writing. I got an email response in a few days after that (but it was contrary to their verbal responses and wasn't what I wanted to hear).
It would be interesting to hear what they say if you asked if it is OK to record the call.
IMHO, it doesn't do any good to record the call. They will just say that the particular representative you talked to was not authoritative. The response you got from the CPUC rep was much more reliable since it quoted the tariffs. That said, @arnolddeleon has a unique situation where PG&E appears to have lost the records of his first NEM 1 system. Good for him I suppose, now that he can absorb the production in batteries.
Recording the call would at least provide evidence that they are providing conflicting information. To me, refusing to provide something as important as the NEM reset date in writing is unacceptable from a public utility. In my case I made a financial decision based on verbal responses which appear to have been incorrect and PG&E is still verbally providing incorrect information and refusing to put it in writing.
My recently installed solar system is 50% larger than the original system. I didn't even question that it would reset the NEM date since that made the most sense. If they would have provided that information in writing during the application process I quite possibly would have made a different decision.
It would also be interesting to see what the position of the other utilities is on this subject.
Technically, any time you connect anything that can feed into the grid you have to get Permission To Operate it.
When I added Powerwalls only to my existing PV system in 2020, it required new PTO from So. Cal Edison.
In 2018, I added two Powerwalls to an existing system. New PTO applied for and issued. PG&E land
If the additional PW doesn't push you into a different regulatory scheme, you should be ok and not have a forced true-up. However, with PG&E there is definitely a line at 10kW. If you have one or two Powewalls, you are in one bracket and if you have 3 or more, you are in a different one. I don't recall the exact names of the two classifications.
Anything over 10 kW should have a PTO called NEM2-MT (multi-tariff). Although your bill will still say NEM2-PS.
The MT PTO has a lot more one time fees and also has a requirement to name PG&E as an insured on your home policy.
I think me and Vines are on this NEM2-MT PTO… but h2ofun’s installer seems to have some magical relationship with PG&E and they let him skip all this BS.
Are you talking about solar generating size or Powerwalls?
I'm considering adding a 3rd Powerwall but don't want to be pushed into a different tariff. I'm currently on NEM2-PS with 2 Powerwalls and solar generating capacity of slightly under 10 kW.
Technically it's the export size of the Powerwalls. IIRC the Tesla Powerwall 2 is still a 5 kW export nameplate so 3x of them is 15 kW of export potential. Added to my 6.7 kWp AC of solar export, PG&E counts my "system size" to be 21.7 kW AC of total energy going onto their infrastructure.
So, they required an extra $1,000 interconnect fee (for NEM2-MT) and that insurance malarkey. I think it's stupid (edit: I don't mean stupid people here, I mean stupid people deliberating the PD with the CPUC) on the NEM 3.0 PD proceeding mentions that PG&E already takes a hefty up-front fixed cost charge to connect PV+ESS systems under NEM2-MT.
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