It's actually 26 minutes, you know those last 3 minutes make all the difference!Haha its funny, a lot of wives rather save the money. But if your wife would rather save 23 minutes by spending $16,500, that's her right as your wife
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Looking for some wisdom for choosing 75D vs 100D
- Thread starter xilex
- Start date
It's actually 26 minutes, you know those last 3 minutes make all the difference!
I always unplug early
+1 The only place that I wished for more range than my 70D was in Murdo, SD. Unfortunately, driving 85 mph into a 20 mph headwind means an absolute mandatory stop before trying the 140 mi leg to Rapid City. Actually, let me correct that: I didn't need more than 70 KWh, I just needed it to fill FASTER.
I used to agree with the thought that a 75D was the same as 100D for long distance travel except for the first leg. But having just come back from a round trip along the east coast to NYC, my viewpoint changed a bit for three reasons:
1) There are so many SCs along I95 that you can be selective to stop at the more desirable ones. Some new SCs are co-located with gas stations and there really isn't anything to do. The 75D's range limits the selection in some cases.
2) At some stops you may want to stop longer to eat, or to just explore (ex, SC at national arbor, MD). Having a 100D would allow you to go longer in your next leg and also give you more choices for the upcoming SCs.
3) Charging at some remote locations at late hours simply don't feel safe. At our last leg coming home, it was getting late at night. With our 75D, we could probably make it all the way if we charge to full at around 220 miles away. But if we had to stop and charge, none of the SCs at Richmond or South Hill felt safe after midnight. Plus, charging to full would've taken too long. We chose to stay a night at DC instead. With a 100D, we would've probably charged a bit more outside of DC and driven home.
I think as more SCs are added, the old thinking of stopping at SC every 100 miles is no longer valid. If we were buying today, I would go for the 100D.
jlv1
Twice as much fun
26 minutes extra time *each* direction of the trip. We makes trips similar to this distance at least once a month. If you do lots of road trips, the extra time really adds up.
Of course, it's too late for me; I have the 75D... and mostly because my wife didn't want to spend extra for the larger battery. It's just that *now* she is less happy with the amount of time we spend charging. If I had data back then similar to what I posted above, I probably would have been able to convince her the extra cost was worth it.
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Lets say you save for arguments sake 2 hours per roundtrip, and you do that same trip twice a month. so in one year, you save 48 hours.
Lets say you own the car for 10 years, thats an extra $1650/year you're paying for the 100D. So you're valuing your time at $35/hr. Only you can decide if $35/hr is worth the cost. If you sell the car sooner though, then that time cost goes up.
That being said, the more of these road trips you do a month/year, the cost value goes up. But for someone who might go on a roadtrip once a month or couple times a year, it doesn't really pay...unless you're filthy rich
you should tell your wife the NHTSA recommends stopping for 15-20 minutes every 3 hours of driving anyways for safety reasons
Had an 85D. Changed it to an S 100D in early December. Both cars were/are leased. Personally, a huge positive difference with increased range. Just came back from Myrtle Beach ~450 mi each way. So much nicer being able to only have to charge once vs twice. Also appreciate faster speed of charge.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Another consideration might be if you ever plan to trailer tow. Depending on the trailer, your range could be cut in half.
See below for data I've collected on my MS 75D (I started collecting at ~2700mi). This is what I have learned in 10 months of ownership.
1) You cannot count on 259 miles of range. If you look at the bottom right chart you can see my efficiency in Wh/mi. The rated range (259 miles) requires ~280 Wh/mi efficiency. The math is usable pack size divided by 259 or: 72600/259. My average is around 320 Wh/mi (226 miles of range). I can get somewhat near 280 Wh/mi on long highway road trips at ideal temps (which seem to be above 75deg). Unfortunately, a drive I often make is 220 miles away, so I am right on the cusp with the reality of range, whereas when I bought the car I thought I'd make it no problem. This has been a big disappointment. (Note: I do have the 21" rims, so I am hurting myself a bit on this measure.)
2) Rated max range degrades over time. The bottom left chart shows the imputed max range, and as you can see it is declining over time, though note that the chart is zoomed in closely. I charge to max around once or twice a month to make my long trip, so the car should be well calibrated to compute max range. So, combine this with point #1 and the max trip you can take starts to get shorter and shorter.
3) The extra cost is a lot. This is why I didn't opt for it. My logic was just take 15 minutes at a super charger every so often and save $20k. Well, that's not wrong, but it's possible if financing the car that the difference isn't actually material on a month to month basis and the resale value might actually nullify the difference. So, it could be worth it.
4) Supercharging is different. I was (still am actually) furious at my salesperson because they swore the 75 and 100 packs were the same. They are not. The 100 pack charges faster. ALSO, superchargers only charge fast when they are not shared. Each supercharger has two outputs (A and B) and if you have another Tesla on the same circuit it slows everything down, by like half. As more Teslas get on the road I am finding I am sharing more often. This is only going to get worse. So, 15 or 20 minute charges are turning into 30-40 minutes. Big difference on a road trip.
5) I have meticulously charged the car to 70% to try to preserve battery life. I just recently changed to 80% (you can see in the last few data points on top-left chart) because the degradation in range was happening anyway.
So, all together if I had to do it all over again I think I would have done the 100 and I do feel a bit cheated because 259 is a pipe dream and the 75 is not as good at superchargers - two things Tesla marketing or representatives seem to have misled me on.
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Thanks ILLCOMM for the input. I don't think I'm going to be taking these long trips too often to justify the cost. On the lease I think it will be about $10000 more over the lifetime of the lease. I'll probably deal with the limitations of the 75D. The 100D would only be better in 5-10% of my driving time anyway. In three years the landscape should change as other car manufacturers are able to bring their pure EV vehicles to market, and maybe battery technology will make some additional progress by then.
I have no doubts about that. Particularly as you are leasing you can switch to higher battery based on your experience in these years.
Am example of a drive where I wish I had 100 D: I driving to a friend's place for a weekend which is 235 miles away. Wouldn't have to stop to charge if I had a 100D. He doesn't have a garage so I have to supercharge to be ready for trips around town anyway but if he had a garage no issues with a 100D.
And also winter range is nowhere closer to 250. Probably more like 200.
My rated range for 75D on 100% charge has always been 250 from the beginning. Never 259.
Do you get 259 on 100% charge?
This is very true, though I think 200 is a bit low. Probably in the 210-215 range.
Yes. In the bottom left chart you can see the times it charged up to 259 and near 259. But you can also see how the peaks are decreasing.
jlv1
Twice as much fun
My 94 year-old father in-law once told me: money is a renewable resource, time is not.
jlv1
Twice as much fun
I have been charging on a 110v 20a outlet for 8 months now without issue. I drive 26 miles a day, and can charge 90 miles every night. It's a non issue, but there is a BIG difference between the 6 MPH you get on a 20 amp circuit, and the 3 you get on a 15.
Only problem for me would be two successive long distance (>200 mile) trips back to back, but that never happens.
The decision rests 100% with what kind of driving you do regularly. For me, personally, 95% of my drives can be done in one charge round trip. The other 5% can be covered with one super charge stop. So for me the 75D made the most sense. If I planned to road trip regularly, where multiple stops would have been required, I absolutely would have sprung for the 100D. But I don't.
Also, figure that the extra weight of the battery you are driving around with will generally make you less efficient for daily driving.
Also, figure that the extra weight of the battery you are driving around with will generally make you less efficient for daily driving.
