Looks like they are removing stalks from the 3/Y

[LorentzTorque]

I wouldn't put anything past Tesla to save a buck. Somebody has to help make up for the Twitter deal.

Just like when they couldn't get radar in 2021 and yanked it from all the 3/Y's and claimed it was all in the master plan. Maybe logistics were part of that, maybe saving a lot per car. Just like removing the passenger lumbar support (something my wife loved). Now yanking radar from the S/X. Most likely to save money from both the hardware and less code branches.

While I really like my S (other than the yoke/stalkless disaster) and my 3 is a pretty good car, next time around I am far less likely to buy a Tesla. I've bought 3 in the last 18 months. The 2 I still have could likely be my last. The interesting tech doesn't offset the crappy yoke and stalk. I don't think FSD will ever be out of beta in my lifetime. A lot of traditional car companies are quickly catching up with Tesla and pay a lot more attention to build quality and customer experience.

I agree with a lot of these sentiments about the radar (and now USS), removing lumbar support, FSD, etc. I'm still skeptical they would make this move for the 3/Y, though, because I think its effect on their sales would be much worse than the effect of removing these other features. Those other things are great features for driving assistance and comfort, but they're not as fundamental to the driving experience as the wheel and stalks. The Model 3 and Model Y are supposed to be more accessible starting points for people making the switch to EVs who are either unable or unwilling to make a > $100k commitment to one, and this would make their biggest seller (by more than a factor of 10, some quarters a factor of 20) into a gimmick for some people. It's not a very practical control system for most people's everyday driving, for many reasons pointed out in this thread. I think it would be a dealbreaker for many people, unlike the radar/USS/lumbar/FSD buffoonery. It would have been a dealbreaker for me. The S/X's are for more of a niche market, so even with the higher price point, they can afford to be a bit more experimental there.

I guess we can't rule out absolute stupidity, but that's really what it would take for them to do this. It wouldn't help Elon with his Twitter problem if they lose a ton of business to other EV makers who take their fundamental vehicle controls more seriously.

It's way to soon for me to say if I'd buy another, because I plan to keep the car for > 5 years and a lot can happen in that time, but I really feel that last part of your comment about customer experience. They'd have to revolutionize their customer service for me to be willing to buy another car from them.

 

[archae86]

To continue the "not yet" reports, the model 3 RWD I just took delivery on two days ago left the Fremont factory on October 15 and has stalks. The official start of model year 2023 was not very many days before that. And mine IS one of the ones that has no ultrasound sensors.

I breathed a sigh of relief. We now have a Y and a 3, and I don't want to have two sets of reflexes to keep track of on some of the really basic functions controlled by these.

 

[Perscitus]

The way things are going - Model 4 and Model Z will most likely be a hit with the budding EV enthusiast, all flavors of early adopter / trailblazer demographics.

Not so much the early-years 1st/2nd gen Tesla owners. Will be interesting to see what that does to demand in the next few years.

 

[Dan_Foster]

I wouldn't put anything past Tesla to save a buck. Somebody has to help make up for the Twitter deal.

Just like when they couldn't get radar in 2021 and yanked it from all the 3/Y's and claimed it was all in the master plan. Maybe logistics were part of that, maybe saving a lot per car. Just like removing the passenger lumbar support (something my wife loved). Now yanking radar from the S/X. Most likely to save money from both the hardware and less code branches.

While I really like my S (other than the yoke/stalkless disaster) and my 3 is a pretty good car, next time around I am far less likely to buy a Tesla. I've bought 3 in the last 18 months. The 2 I still have could likely be my last. The interesting tech doesn't offset the crappy yoke and stalk. I don't think FSD will ever be out of beta in my lifetime. A lot of traditional car companies are quickly catching up with Tesla and pay a lot more attention to build quality and customer experience.

Yup. Tesla has lost our business too—most likely permanently and that sucks. I really liked their cars before this current string of idiotic decisions.

 

[brancky3]

Yup. Tesla has lost our business too—most likely permanently and that sucks. I really liked their cars before this current string of idiotic decisions.

I'm not at that point yet because other car companies make even stupider decisions.... on our Mach E GT we can't even set a charge limit unless it's somewhere we've charged previously.

 

[Nate T]

So frustrating that Tesla can't just do what they do well and stop trying to innovate in user-hostile ways. If not for superchargers, I don't think I'd even consider owning another Tesla. Unfortunately it looks like road tripping in any other EV can still be quite a pain. Hopefully that will improve before we need to replace our MY!

 

[Maaz]

In my model s plaid I thought the thing I would have the most trouble getting used to would be no stalks for shifting or wipers. I literally don’t even notice. Everything works great!

 

[AdamVIP]

The AI signals in the holiday update are the biggest confirmation yet that Tesla is going to yoke the 3/Y

 

[zoomer0056]

The AI signals in the holiday update are the biggest confirmation yet that Tesla is going to yoke the 3/Y

Bait thrown, hooked ... what do you mean?

 

[BigNick]

Hooked ... what do you mean?

I think he means the optional auto-cancel feature.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The AI signals in the holiday update are the biggest confirmation yet that Tesla is going to yoke the 3/Y

Is it really? I remembered Elon mentioned autoshift will come to even Teslas without the yoke (although it didn't happen yet), so adding such features does not necessarily mean they will do a yoke.

 

[AdamVIP]

When you activate the AI signal setting they work of a single tier input. You never have to depress the stalk to the second indent. The signals know if you are changing lanes, in a turning lane or even exiting the highway. Its set up for a single button press like on the yolk wheels.

 

[advocate8]

Many people are resistant to change. They are used to stalks and gear flippers.
They have been driving with them for many years, and have gotten used to them.

After some time driving without them, they will adapt, but adaption is not effortless.

Cars used to have horn buttons all over the place. On horn rings, buttons, floorboard switches, dash buttons, on the end of stalks etc. Drove people crazy when renting cars unfamiliar to them. Now auto manufacturers have normalized many controls and people have gotten comfortable with them.

Eliminating stalks has made this uncomfortable again. Luddites always resist change.

Motivation to change from stalks hanging on steering columns is strong. It can save hundreds of $ by neither buying them or installing them. They are old fashioned mechanical devices, subject to wear and malfunction. When you are building a Million Cars a year, saving a couple hundred $ on each one will make sense to many. Also saves weight, complication, engineering, shopping for devices and integrating them across their full lineup of vehicles.

Probably takes 1/10 of $, time, complication, purchasing, design, integration, assembly, storage of parts, malfunctions and general hassle over installing legacy stalks. Putting haptic buttons on steering wheels has lots of advantages.

Once you get used to haptics, they are really much simpler than dealing with all the knobs, switches, push pull, move up/down, etc. that comes with manipulating the typical stalk with headlight dimming, turn signal, horn button, windshield wiper, windshield washer, dash dimmer, cruise control, running lights, rear wipers/washers etc.

Elon is optimistic, believing that sentient Human Beings are capable of changing. He may be wrong about many.

It’s not being a luddite to point out when something actually IS stupid.
Given the last six months many of us are well past thinking Elon knows what’s best and we just need to suck it up.
Self-driving isn’t happening for years if ever. Robotaxis ditto.
three-point turns and the need to shift directions quickly, meanwhile, are here now.
And there is literally zero advantage to the Yoke. NONE. Nothing but downside. It’s just Elon dictating terms.

If these things stick -- and like the missing radar they won’t is my guess because they are widely despised by potential customers -- then this second Tesla is definitely my last.

 

[DayTrippin]

It’s not being a luddite to point out when something actually IS stupid.
Given the last six months many of us are well past thinking Elon knows what’s best and we just need to suck it up.
Self-driving isn’t happening for years if ever. Robotaxis ditto.
three-point turns and the need to shift directions quickly, meanwhile, are here now.
And there is literally zero advantage to the Yoke. NONE. Nothing but downside. It’s just Elon dictating terms.

If these things stick -- and like the missing radar they won’t is my guess because they are widely despised by potential customers -- then this second Tesla is definitely my last.

I am so over the lack of stalks on my S. Two times in the last week I almost got the nose taken off the S because I couldn't reverse in time because of the stupid shifter. On one of them, I just had to punch it and ended up having my wife screaming at me for about the next 15 minutes about WTF was I doing and we almost got hit because of my stupidity.

Well, no stupidity on my part. There was no way I could get into reverse fast enough to back up and the only option was to go for it. If it wasn't for the great acceleration of the S we would have been hit. The 3 had been in the shop so our S was our daily driver in dense urban traffic and all the blind intersections just made me hate the car whenever I had to drive in rush hour.

We finally got the 3 back and what a relief it was to drive with the stalks. It was like a night and day difference for me. My wife didn't really get how bad the S could be as she hates to drive it without the stalks but didn't really understand how unsafe it could be. She had heard me gripe about it a lot but had never experienced these moments were you are milliseconds away from potentially getting hit.

This thread reminds me of all the Tesla Stans who said I was crazy that my phantom braking events, even though severe, didn't matter because I was able to avoid being in an accident (even though I had many near misses). So their logic was because there were NO ACTUAL reported accidents as a result of phantom braking that all is fine. Well, now they have reported accidents that allegedly are the result of phantom braking being the root cause.

Following the logic of some of the people here, since there are no accidents attributed to the lack of stalks, the design must be fine. I do not want to be the first one either to report it but I feel like the odds are stacked against me on the roads I often drive. Now that the 3 is back, it will reduce the frequency I have to drive the S on the roads with all the blind intersections. Still have to deal with the stupid design for all 3 point turns getting in the garage and the lack of the horn button in the center will is still a cluster truck no matter how you look at it.

On the more open roads, and where I never need to change between forward and reverse I can live without the stalks. Factor in though how often the auto-detection of direction is wrong, it just reminds me of what a bad decision the removal of the stalks is. I can have the ultrasonic sensors (USS) saying the path forward is blocked yet the car will still choose to go forward. How the heck can you mess up that so badly? The USS say STOP, STOP, STOPPPP yet the car still thinks it is fine to go that way. Happens 5 out of ten times in my garage because I have a low wall at the front.

 

[CyberGus]

I am so over the lack of stalks on my S. Two times in the last week I almost got the nose taken off the S because I couldn't reverse in time because of the stupid shifter. On one of them, I just had to punch it and ended up having my wife screaming at me for about the next 15 minutes about WTF was I doing and we almost got hit because of my stupidity.

Well, no stupidity on my part. There was no way I could get into reverse fast enough to back up and the only option was to go for it. If it wasn't for the great acceleration of the S we would have been hit. The 3 had been in the shop so our S was our daily driver in dense urban traffic and all the blind intersections just made me hate the car whenever I had to drive in rush hour.

We finally got the 3 back and what a relief it was to drive with the stalks. It was like a night and day difference for me. My wife didn't really get how bad the S could be as she hates to drive it without the stalks but didn't really understand how unsafe it could be. She had heard me gripe about it a lot but had never experienced these moments were you are milliseconds away from potentially getting hit.

This thread reminds me of all the Tesla Stans who said I was crazy that my phantom braking events, even though severe, didn't matter because I was able to avoid being in an accident (even though I had many near misses). So their logic was because there were NO ACTUAL reported accidents as a result of phantom braking that all is fine. Well, now they have reported accidents that allegedly are the result of phantom braking being the root cause.

Following the logic of some of the people here, since there are no accidents attributed to the lack of stalks, the design must be fine. I do not want to be the first one either to report it but I feel like the odds are stacked against me on the roads I often drive. Now that the 3 is back, it will reduce the frequency I have to drive the S on the roads with all the blind intersections. Still have to deal with the stupid design for all 3 point turns getting in the garage and the lack of the horn button in the center will is still a cluster truck no matter how you look at it.

On the more open roads, and where I never need to change between forward and reverse I can live without the stalks. Factor in though how often the auto-detection of direction is wrong, it just reminds me of what a bad decision the removal of the stalks is. I can have the ultrasonic sensors (USS) saying the path forward is blocked yet the car will still choose to go forward. How the heck can you mess up that so badly? The USS say STOP, STOP, STOPPPP yet the car still thinks it is fine to go that way. Happens 5 out of ten times in my garage because I have a low wall at the front.

Elon: "If you never need to add anything back, you're not removing enough."
Me: "Congratulations! It's time to add things back."

 

[finman100]

so people test drove the no-stalks-yoke, didn't like it, bought it anyway, then still hate it. huh. that's a weird one. not.

 

[chinney]

so people test drove the no-stalks-yoke, didn't like it, bought it anyway, then still hate it. huh. that's a weird one. not.

Well then you will be happy to know that for every person in that situation, there will be many many more who HAVE NOT bought and WILL NOT buy a ‘no-stalks yoke’ vehicle. The Model S is a low volume car for a somewhat specialized audience, albeit Tesla almost certainly has lost customers even there due to the decision to go with the current stalkless yoke setup. Put that set up on their general purpose vehicles in the Model 3 and Model Y and see how many more customers they lose. I can tell you that they certainly would lose me.

 

[Earl]

Tesla almost certainly has lost customers

I guess the question is whether more people bought it because of the yoke and no stalks than didn't because of that feature.

 

[lit af]

i wish u could put the swipe up and down on the screen to change gears. I own a plaid and have the model 3 as my daily and i find myself swiping for no reason haha

 

[CyberGus]

I’ll take yolk and stalks, thx