Loose driver's seat – considering class action

[SHNergard]

Loose driver's seat seem to be a well-known problem, when googling. In my case I have had this problem over two years. Tesla has tried to fix my front seat several times. Last attempt the seat was only holding for one day after four hours drive, then it was back to what has been the norm, loose.

My concern the past two years is:

• What would happen if I got into accident?
• Will the seat hold, or will it separate from the frame?
• Which damaged will it cause me?
• How much more damaged will my loose front seat cause versus a fixed?

Well, Tesla claims that this is not significant deficiency, and will not be a safety issue. However, they have not showed me any documents that backs up their statement.

My concern has been addressed to Tesla Norway, Tesla’s legal department in US and Elon, by oral, mail, snail-mail and tweet. The Consumer Complaints Committee in Norway is currently processing my claim:

• This issue is a significant deficiency,
• Tesla has tried to fix the seat twice or more, and
• Tesla has not fixed the problem within reasonable time, and therefore
• by Norwegian consumer law I am entitled to cancel the purchase.

The Consumer Complaints Committee in Norway will not evaluate any danger that Tesla is putting me in by not manage to fix the problem, nor to any who has experienced or will experience the same problem. I therefore consider filing a class action lawsuit. Before I will make a decision, I am seeking answer on several questions. I hope you fellow Tesla owners my give me some answers, experiences, views and if you consider joining a class action lawsuit.

The following questions are some of them I am seeking answers to:

• Has anyone experienced loose driver’s seat?
• Which model and year is your car?
• How old was your car, when you first time experienced the issue?
• Did it get fixed?
• Did you bother to get it fixed?
• How many attempts did Tesla need to get it fixed?
• How much time spent Tesla fixing it?
• Where you concern about safety issue a loose seat could cause?
• What did Tesla tell you about safety issue?
• Did Tesla show you or give you any documents that backed up their statement?
• How did you complain to Tesla?
• Did you get help to file the complaint, and by whom?
• Have you considered filing a class action lawsuit on this problem?
• Do you know anyone who have consider, or filing a class action lawsuit on this problem?
• Do you have any experience with a lawyer/law firm that have success with class action lawsuit that you will recommend?

I created a poll that shows how many have experienced loose driver’s seat.

I will appreciate any reply on this thread and any PM’s that will be helpful in this case.

 

[SHNergard]

To exemplify my concern, I have made two drawings showing how a loose dirver’s seat may cause damages to the driver and passenger.

Impact when the car is rolling over
There is a worse case I didn't draw, but you imagine your selves how it would be if a loose seat and the driver is moving around inside the cabin when the car is rolling over. The driver will certainly get some hit and both the driver and the loose seat will heat any passenger in the cabin.

 

[beatle]

Would help to know what year your car is. There are 4 revisions of seats in the MS. Also, where is the seat loose and what are the symptoms? Is it just a noise or are you able to rock the whole seat around?

 

[Saabstory88]

I have experienced some light rocking in a loaner 90D, with audible noise. While it was not my vehicle, would it still be useful for me to respond to the survey?

 

[SHNergard]

Would help to know what year your car is. There are 4 revisions of seats in the MS. Also, where is the seat loose and what are the symptoms? Is it just a noise or are you able to rock the whole seat around?

My Tesla is a Model S90D 2016 Facelift.
Yes, you are able to rock it back and forth. The seat tipping forward while breaking.
First time I noted it was in November 2018 during phantom breaking. Then it kept getting worse until Tesla made a serious attempt to fix it in September 2019, after two previous unsuccessful service visits. The serious attempt lasted one week, when I again feilt it while phantom breaking. It again got worse until Tesla tried a new serious attempt to fix it in March 2020 after again three new service visits. The attempt lasted only a day. This issue was addressed in total seven service appointments.

 

[SHNergard]

I have experienced some light rocking in a loaner 90D, with audible noise. While it was not my vehicle, would it still be useful for me to respond to the survey?

Thanks for replying. I think it's best that the Tesla owner (and previous owner) respond to the survey, but your information is still useful. Which model year was the loaner?

 

[Saabstory88]

Thanks for replying. I think it's best that the Tesla owner (and previous owner) respond to the survey, but your information is still useful. Which model year was the loaner?

It was a 2016 90D with the "Next Gen" seats, AP1. Pre facelift.

 

[beatle]

My Tesla is a Model S90D 2016 Facelift.
Yes, you are able to rock it back and forth. The seat tipping forward while breaking.
First time I noted it was in November 2018 during phantom breaking. Then it kept getting worse until Tesla made a serious attempt to fix it in September 2019, after two previous unsuccessful service visits. The serious attempt lasted one week, when I again feilt it while phantom breaking. It again got worse until Tesla tried a new serious attempt to fix it in March 2020 after again three new service visits. The attempt lasted only a day. This issue was addressed in total seven service appointments.

What have they done at the service appointments?

 

[SHNergard]

December 2018 visit and reported the problem to Tesla and booked service appointment

March 2019 1st Service Appointment:
Concern: Customer: The driver seat moves 1 cm forward under hard deceleration.
Corrections: Front Seat Assemblies and Hardware General Diagnosis
Found slack in the seat frame driver's seat.
Ny timene må bestilles å utføre huck-bom replacement.

June 2019 2nd Service Appointment:
Concern: Customer: Ref ROEC9812034223.
Perform huck-boom replacement due to slack in seat frame on driver's seat
MISC Items: NO LABOR PERFORMED
Inspected driver seat. Tesla bulletin will be perform with the seats once the part arrived. (huck-bom replacement). BO parts.

September 2019 3rd Service Appointment:
Concern: Driver seat bulletin SB-17-13-005. Ref. to previous ROEC9668045989. Seat is loose. Preformed bulletin. Replaced trim, B-pillar trim is back ordered because of scratches.

Corrections: General Diagnosis
Correction: Cover - Seat Back - Driver's (Premium Seats) (Remove & Replace)
Parts:
NORGLIDE BUSHING(1448317-00-A) 2.0
LOCK WASHER FOR M8(1448316-00-A) 2.0
LOCKNUT M8X1.25MM(1448315-00-A) 2.0
BOLT,FH,SHLDR[4X14],M8X20,STL[109],ZN(1133688-00-B) 2.0
COVER TRACK FRONT SEAT LH(1031675-00-A) 1.0

Corrections: Assembly - Finisher - Instrument Panel - RH (Remove & Replace)
Parts:
ASSY IP LOWER LEFT LTHR TAN(1002405-02-G) 1.0

Corrections: Insert - Trim - A-Pillar - Lower - LH (Remove & Replace)
Parts:
ASY, A-PILLAR TRIM LOWER LH(1030390-00-E) 1.0

October 2019 4th Service Appointment:
Concern: Customer states : The driver seat seams loose, when I break hard.
Could not replicate customers concern. We have agreed that we will take a test drive at a later time. Here we will check phantom braking and seat
Corrections: General Diagnosis

November 2019 5th Service Appointment
Did a test drive but could find a spot where the phantom breaking occurs.The test drive was not noted on the work order

January 2020 6th Service Appointment
Concern: The customer states: Seat moves when braking hard. No issue at intake.

Corrections: Perform Validation Test Drive

February 2020 EU Control at NAF (Norwegian Automobile Federation)
Notice of loose driver's seat

March 2020 7th Service Appointment
Concern: Driver seat is loose, noticed this under EU control.
Confirmed customer complaints. Need to replacement seat cush, Replaced seat cushion and verified all good after repair

Corrections: Miscellaneous Labor
Corrections: Base Assembly - Driver's Seat (Remove & Replace)

Parts
EU-APAC-ASY-FS N GEN TAN LHD LH CUSH(1056287- 1.0 03-B)

Corrections: Additional Work Required - Corrosion Present - Heavy

June 2020 Evaluation at NAF
Consultant confirms that the seat is still loose

December 2020 Inspection at neutral ground
NAF Consultant and two Tesla technicians confirms together that the seat is still loose

 

[SHNergard]

The Repair Bulletin https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10168253-9999.pdf states:

On some Model S and Model X front seats, the forward inboard Huck BOM fastener and pivot bushing (nearest to the center console) used on the front lift links may develop an interactive clearance condition, which might result in a rocking motion in the seat. This does not affect performance, but may result in customer dissatisfaction

When the Bulletin states this does not affect performance, I assume that there must be some documentation that support that statement. Does NHTSA have this documentation?

 

[beatle]

NHTSA isn't involved with bulletins that aren't safety related.

 

[SHNergard]

Thanks @beatle. That means that Tesla have decided if this issue in the bulletin is safety related or not. Tesla must have made that decision based on something. I can see the following possibilities:

1. Tesla has made a thorough investigation that correctly concludes that the issue is not safety related. In this case Tesla should be able to provide a report that explains the outcome.
2. Tesla has made a thorough investigation that incorrectly, but unintentional, concludes that the issue is not safety related. In this case Tesla should be able to provide a report that explains the outcome. (They don't know that the conclusion is incorrect).
3. Tesla has intentionally made a light investigation and intentionally made up a conclusion that states that the issue is not safety related. In this case Tesla is most likely not eager to provide the documentation.
4. Tesla has not made any investigations, but has still made a statement that the issue is not safety related. In this case Tesla can not provide any documentation

There are several other possibilities too. Do anyone have any views on this?

 

[HenryT]

My car (2015 MS 70D with the 1st generation seats, well out of warranty) was in service in March this year for a number of items and I included the rocking seat as an item to investigate. The 'solution' was that I should buy a 'new' seat, which they couldn't guaranteed wouldn't end up with the same problem and wasn't an item they stocked anyway. I asked about the Huck fastener replacement (I had printed out and showed them the TSB) and was told "we don't do that anymore, we just replace the seat".

Needless to say, I haven't replaced my seat and it still rocks on acceleration/braking.

 

[SHNergard]

Happy New Year!

I'm currently collecting informations, and would very much like you to share your experiences related to loose driver's seat. If you don't want to post it here, you are welcome to PM me. Please, let me know if you are in the same situation as me and considering Class Action.

I appreciate the PMs that I already have received

 

[SCharged]

My Tesla is a Model S90D 2016 Facelift.
Yes, you are able to rock it back and forth. The seat tipping forward while breaking.
First time I noted it was in November 2018 during phantom breaking. Then it kept getting worse until Tesla made a serious attempt to fix it in September 2019, after two previous unsuccessful service visits. The serious attempt lasted one week, when I again feilt it while phantom breaking. It again got worse until Tesla tried a new serious attempt to fix it in March 2020 after again three new service visits. The attempt lasted only a day. This issue was addressed in total seven service appointments.

This exact thing happens in my MS

 

[Crutonius]

2013 MS. I've recently replaced the front seat with a next gen seat so I've spent some time starring at the mechanical interface with the car.

I can say that with either seat the parts of the seat that actually interface with the floor of the car seem very solid. After I upgraded I paid close attention to any instability for safety reasons obviously. There's just a little bit of play. It's not really enough to worry me. It's definitely not coming from anywhere where the seat connected to the car. Maybe one of the motors has some play in it in some seats?

For anyone experiencing a lot of this let me just bring up the basic question to get it out of the way, have you checked all four bolts that are attaching it to the car? They used in my opinion way too much seizing compound on them. Even though they might not seem loose it still might help to try to tighten them.

 

[SHNergard]

I'm not a mechanics, but my theory is that the screw/bolt hole is stripped, and that's way the fix just lasted for a short time (1 day - 1 week) and then got looser. It took Tesla 10 months from when I reported and booked a service appointment to Tesla tried huck-bom replacement. In the meantime the screw/bolt hole was wearing and tearing.

 

[SHNergard]

I read about this Class Action lawsuit accusing Tesla of ignoring and covering up suspension defects. It seems covering up is well known to Tesla

It's not related to my issue, but it's related to my model of Tesla. When thinking closer to it, I had an issue with the suspensions in 2017, that the Tesla tech said was normal behavior of the car. I could reproduce the issue by raising the suspension to the highest level and make a sharp turn at low speed. The wheel/suspension made a cracking/metallic noice and the car was wobbling. After that Service visit, I newer had the suspension at the highest level when I took a sharp turn. Can't say I experienced it since.

 

[dannycamps]

My first Tesla (mid-2015 85D) that I purchased in 2019 used with only 16k miles on it had a loose driver's seat. There was noticeable rocking when I was driving the car - so much so that other people pointed it out when the took my car for a drive.

Unfortunately the car was totaled in an accident before I could get the a service appointment to address it but I can confirm that the play in the seat did not cause any issues in a front-end collision.

I have also read here that someone was able to address the issue by installing a shim somewhere along the seat track.

FWIW, my 2019 100D that now has 30k miles on it does not exhibit the same issue (yet).

 

[elee888]

my 2013 P85 Gen 1 driver seat feels loose. you can feel it on hard braking and over railroad tracks. SC says it's normal.

It's a unsettling feeling.