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Lordstown Endurance pickup truck

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
430
1,626
San Jose, CA
Lordstown Motors just went public via a SPAC transaction, so I finally checked out their product.

Lordstown Motors Corp. | Electric Work Vehicles | Lordstown, OH, USA

Lordstown-Endurance-EV-003.jpeg


Let me first say I'm a fan of what Lordstown Motors is trying to do. I really want this company to succeed. This company's success would be good for the environment, for the US auto industry, and for the Midwest.

The Lordstown plant is from the same generation of GM assembly plants as the GM Fremont plant, which of course is now the Tesla Fremont plant.

Some of the technical choices on the Endurance pickup seem odd to me. They are using hub motors. I'm familiar with hub motors from building solar cars. The advantage of hub motors is efficiency and mechanical simplicity, but they create a lot of headaches. It increases the unsprung mass, hurting ride and handling. The motor is exposed to the elements, which can hurt reliability and expose it to damage in minor crashes. You need to run high voltage cables to the motor, and those cables dangling under the car's body are a potential point of failure.

If you run liquid cooling to the motors, the exposed hosing is another potential point of failure. If you use air cooling, that limits the sustained power output, especially in hot weather. I'm guessing they're using air cooling which is why their sustained torque is so much lower than peak and why their towing capacity is so-so.

You would use hub motors if you are going for maximum efficiency (as on a solar car). But the biggest efficiency hammer on an EV is aerodynamics. I don't understand why you'd use hub motors but not optimize the shape for aero.

They appear to be using a leaf spring suspension and a sort of non-live solid axle. I'm not sure why they're running a metal tube between the rear wheels if they're using independent hub motors on the wheels.

They're using a ladder frame chassis, which is a good choice for this application, but the space for the battery pack is unnecessarily narrow. They could surely have made the battery larger.

Anyone here have thoughts on the Lordstown pickup?
 

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
430
1,626
San Jose, CA
The Lordstown starts at $52.5k, so price wise it's very competitive with the F-150 after tax credits. The AWD Lordstown has specs very similar to the RWD Cybertruck (range, towing, bed size, payload) and a (post tax) price right in between a RWD and AWD Cybertruck. So price wise Lordstown is right on the mark.
 

Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,890
2,011
Bainbridge Island, WA
Lordstown Motors just went public via a SPAC transaction, so I finally checked out their product.

Lordstown Motors Corp. | Electric Work Vehicles | Lordstown, OH, USA

Lordstown-Endurance-EV-003.jpeg


Let me first say I'm a fan of what Lordstown Motors is trying to do. I really want this company to succeed. This company's success would be good for the environment, for the US auto industry, and for the Midwest.

The Lordstown plant is from the same generation of GM assembly plants as the GM Fremont plant, which of course is now the Tesla Fremont plant.

Some of the technical choices on the Endurance pickup seem odd to me. They are using hub motors. I'm familiar with hub motors from building solar cars. The advantage of hub motors is efficiency and mechanical simplicity, but they create a lot of headaches. It increases the unsprung mass, hurting ride and handling. The motor is exposed to the elements, which can hurt reliability and expose it to damage in minor crashes. You need to run high voltage cables to the motor, and those cables dangling under the car's body are a potential point of failure.

If you run liquid cooling to the motors, the exposed hosing is another potential point of failure. If you use air cooling, that limits the sustained power output, especially in hot weather. I'm guessing they're using air cooling which is why their sustained torque is so much lower than peak and why their towing capacity is so-so.

You would use hub motors if you are going for maximum efficiency (as on a solar car). But the biggest efficiency hammer on an EV is aerodynamics. I don't understand why you'd use hub motors but not optimize the shape for aero.

They appear to be using a leaf spring suspension and a sort of non-live solid axle. I'm not sure why they're running a metal tube between the rear wheels if they're using independent hub motors on the wheels.

They're using a ladder frame chassis, which is a good choice for this application, but the space for the battery pack is unnecessarily narrow. They could surely have made the battery larger.

Anyone here have thoughts on the Lordstown pickup?
Just another example of our failings, I guess.

I agree with all your comments - clever engineering might help - on a light vehicle, but a 4 door pick up? Perhaps this is just a Van replacement - and Mom will be happy.

Looks like they are on top of the Wall St. scam - Must have hired Nikola consultants?
 

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
430
1,626
San Jose, CA
Not sure why Lordstown stock is down so much. It seems to me that of the EV startups that have a viable product, a factory, and a decent business plan, Lordstown is the only one with a cheap valuation. I have no idea why Canoo and Fisker would have higher market caps than Lordstown.
 

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
430
1,626
San Jose, CA
Hindenburg Research hits Lordstown hard: The Lordstown Motors Mirage: Fake Orders, Undisclosed Production Hurdles, And A Prototype Inferno

I don't totally buy the criticisms in the article. Some of them are reminiscent of the claims made by Tesla shorts over the years. But two claims from the article I can believe. One, the product is going to be late. Yeah, every hardware startup ever is late with their first product, and the surprise would be if they shipped on time. Two, the pre-orders aren't real, which is disappointing to read. Early Tesla had far fewer pre-orders, but they were backed by $40000 deposits.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: HVM

HVM

Savolainen
Oct 30, 2012
1,104
1,929
Finland
Multicopters with ducted fans and trucks/cars with hub motors are BS. If you see them on startup(Read SPAC-merger money grab)'s products; evade them with good distance.
 

uujjj2

Member
Aug 11, 2020
430
1,626
San Jose, CA
Multicopters with ducted fans and trucks/cars with hub motors are BS. If you see them on startup(Read SPAC-merger money grab)'s products; evade them with good distance.
I've got a lot of experience with hub motors from building solar cars. They come with definite tradeoffs. But you can't make a blanket statement about them being BS.
 
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Reactions: Brando and henderrj

HVM

Savolainen
Oct 30, 2012
1,104
1,929
Finland
Yes, you are free to put heavies parts (after battery) of the full size truck to the suspension and same time get worst possible setup for angular momentum. And I am free to call such design to BS.
 

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