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Losing 5% Parked Daily, Connection Issue?

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
726
Germany
Of course percentage will go up too. Percentage is 1% equals 3.1 miles or 5 km. At 2km up you will not notice it, of course as it is 0.4%. The % drop while driving is calculated, the % while resting is rated and always the same based on available kWh.

Like I said, when the battery warms up due to changing weather it could go higher, happened to me last night and on a couple of occasions.
When it gets colder it drops suddenly by a mile or so too. Chemistry.

Nothing more to be added frankly and you are not providing much info so I can't really be of help.
 

user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,407
875
US
I'd be waiting for the "real data" logs on this issue before trying to speculate further. It is easy to misread the dial and wrongly remember what it was the day(s) before. Ideally, it should be measured in Watt-Hrs rather than percents for this kind of logging.

Is it possible that there is a way for him to download or screenshot the real data?
 

darth_vad3r

Well-Known Sith
May 6, 2019
1,574
1,177
Canada
Of course percentage will go up too. Percentage is 1% equals 3.1 miles or 5 km. At 2km up you will not notice it, of course as it is 0.4%. The % drop while driving is calculated, the % while resting is rated and always the same based on available kWh.

This is true when new (mostly), but as soon as your car's ongoing calibration and the battery degradation start factoring in, 1.0% no longer equals a precise number of miles. It will fluctuate. e.g. day 1 100% = 310. day 1000 100% = 302 miles. etc.

Dashboard "%" is essentially mapping voltage levels of the pack to numbers between 0-100.
Dashboard "miles" is mapping kWh of energy estimated in the pack to numbers between 0-310.

Like I said, when the battery warms up due to changing weather it could go higher, happened to me last night and on a couple of occasions.
When it gets colder it drops suddenly by a mile or so too. Chemistry.

Yep, voltage level can change after charging there is a lag between charge and pack voltage ... as temperature settles voltage measurement can change too.
 

darth_vad3r

Well-Known Sith
May 6, 2019
1,574
1,177
Canada
I'd be waiting for the "real data" logs on this issue before trying to speculate further. It is easy to misread the dial and wrongly remember what it was the day(s) before. Ideally, it should be measured in Watt-Hrs rather than percents for this kind of logging.

Is it possible that there is a way for him to download or screenshot the real data?

Lacking direct watt-hrs available on the dashboard, miles is the next best thing (better than % which is based on voltage, not energy).
Kilometres is 1.6x better than miles for measuring this stuff as well!
 

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
726
Germany
This is true when new (mostly), but as soon as your car's ongoing calibration and the battery degradation start factoring in, 1.0% no longer equals a precise number of miles. It will fluctuate. e.g. day 1 100% = 310. day 1000 100% = 302 miles. etc.

Dashboard "%" is essentially mapping voltage levels of the pack to numbers between 0-100.
Dashboard "miles" is mapping kWh of energy estimated in the pack to numbers between 0-310.



Yep, voltage level can change after charging there is a lag between charge and pack voltage ... as temperature settles voltage measurement can change too.
Yes, numbers I gave were an example for the first 5000 miles or so. Then degradation kicks in. At the beginning we have 500km and since 100% is 500km you calculate from that. When we get a degradation and 100% is 490km, obviously 1% will be 4.9km. Same with miles.

This of course applies to charging, not driving. Charging
formula = available capacity in kWh / typical range equals km on Dashboard shown when you unplug
TR is roughly 15kWh/100km. So 75/15= 5*100km
Driving formula = (available kWh-heat loss/ whatever the current consumption while driving)
 
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BourneM3

Member
Apr 6, 2019
39
24
Ontario
What I've learned is that proximity to your phone is important. If your phone and car are within bluetooth range of each other, it's hard for the car to sleep and easy to wake up. (I use my phone as my key)

My drain rate at home is much higher than at work where I am further away from the car. I do not enable sentry at home or at work, nor do I enable cabin overheat.

Nothing scientific but these are my observations.
 

darth_vad3r

Well-Known Sith
May 6, 2019
1,574
1,177
Canada
What I've learned is that proximity to your phone is important. If your phone and car are within bluetooth range of each other, it's hard for the car to sleep and easy to wake up. (I use my phone as my key)

My drain rate at home is much higher than at work where I am further away from the car. I do not enable sentry at home or at work, nor do I enable cabin overheat.

Nothing scientific but these are my observations.

That’s certainly a possibility, but like you said — not scientific. Other interfering factors could be: temperature difference day vs night, no wifi vs weak wifi?

One way to test it would be to disable Bluetooth on your phone overnight. Then compare home overnight with phone within BT range vs home overnight with phone “far away” (BT off). Repeat both ways a few times to get some stats to analyze.
 
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vickh

Active Member
Dec 16, 2018
3,165
711
az
That’s certainly a possibility, but like you said — not scientific. Other interfering factors could be: temperature difference day vs night, no wifi vs weak wifi?

One way to test it would be to disable Bluetooth on your phone overnight. Then compare home overnight with phone within BT range vs home overnight with phone “far away” (BT off). Repeat both ways a few times to get some stats to analyze.


Gold star :)

will turn on BT at night or turn phone off

will wifi booster help?
 

user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,407
875
US
Gold star :)

will turn on BT at night or turn phone off

will wifi booster help?

You need to start posting logs. If you are loosing 5% daily you should have 7 days worth of logs since you agreed to start monitoring.

At this point, I 100% do not believe you. The fact that you are not trying indicates to me that on some level you realize that you may just be imaging this problem and this 5% daily loss never happened to you.

If I thought I had a 5% daily loss, I'd have the logs in hand before I even asked about it.
 

darth_vad3r

Well-Known Sith
May 6, 2019
1,574
1,177
Canada
You need to start posting logs. If you are loosing 5% daily you should have 7 days worth of logs since you agreed to start monitoring.

At this point, I 100% do not believe you. The fact that you are not trying indicates to me that on some level you realize that you may just be imaging this problem and this 5% daily loss never happened to you.

If I thought I had a 5% daily loss, I'd have the logs in hand before I even asked about it.

You are confused. You are replying to someone who isn't the OP. OP is @Koofteh who hasn't been "seen" for 3d 10h according to the forum... so you need to dial down your conspiracy detector a bit too.
 
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user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,407
875
US
You are confused. You are replying to someone who isn't the OP. OP is @Koofteh who hasn't been "seen" for 3d 10h according to the forum... so you need to dial down your conspiracy detector a bit too.

I see. What is he doing here?

Nothing against Koofteh then, I think he figured out his issue was as with the counting.
 
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TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
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Germany
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Koofteh

Member
Sep 16, 2019
8
6
Canada
I forgot to update this thread but this definitely was a bug that was present in the last few releases of v9.

When the first version of v10 was released I noticed I was no longer losing huge amounts of charge while parked. The problem has persisted up until then.

I just parked for 30+ hours underground with no LTE and my drain was only 1.5km or 0.21kW.
 
Last edited:

Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
3,466
1,879
QLD, Australia
What I've learned is that proximity to your phone is important. If your phone and car are within bluetooth range of each other, it's hard for the car to sleep and easy to wake up. (I use my phone as my key)

My drain rate at home is much higher than at work where I am further away from the car. I do not enable sentry at home or at work, nor do I enable cabin overheat.

Nothing scientific but these are my observations.

AFAIK the bluetooth sensor does not wake the car up. Certainly I never noticed on teslafi that the car woke up from walking past the car with my mobile phone.
 

ponzu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
289
115
Southern California
Trying to digest and reconcile all the advice.

My drain (in the garage) has been bad. One advice: turn off WiFi. Another (well, not advice, but an observation): bad LTE signal --> drain. I live in a bad LTE signal area. Am I better off shutting off WiFi or not? Does connected WiFi make up for weak LTE signal, or does weak LTE signal drains battery and having WiFi on drains more battery?
 

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
726
Germany
I don't know why bad LTE should be bad. If the car is sleeping then this doesn't matter. I have left the car in garages with bad or no signal and had not significant drain. If you are in wifi chances are the car will be kept alive more often. Turning wifi is then advisable, but turn it before you leave the car as it sometimes turns itself back on.
 

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
2,212
1,529
Syracuse, NY
I don't know why bad LTE should be bad. If the car is sleeping then this doesn't matter. I have left the car in garages with bad or no signal and had not significant drain. If you are in wifi chances are the car will be kept alive more often. Turning wifi is then advisable, but turn it before you leave the car as it sometimes turns itself back on.
Even though this is an old thread, I'll respond. I don't think wifi will cause much power drain either on or off. However, LTE might be a bigger power drain for the car because if you don't have signal the car/cell phone will constantly look to check if the signal is back and constantly try to ping a tower. Now you might think that a Tesla with a giant battery shouldn't really be an issue. Yes if it's just the cell draining the main battery but it's not. I think the cell drains the 12V and once that drains, the car has to wake up and recharge the 12V. Rinse repeat. Now I don't have concrete evidence of this but it could be possibility based on what I know about how Teslas work.
 

TimothyHW3

Active Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,032
726
Germany
Even though this is an old thread, I'll respond. I don't think wifi will cause much power drain either on or off. However, LTE might be a bigger power drain for the car because if you don't have signal the car/cell phone will constantly look to check if the signal is back and constantly try to ping a tower. Now you might think that a Tesla with a giant battery shouldn't really be an issue. Yes if it's just the cell draining the main battery but it's not. I think the cell drains the 12V and once that drains, the car has to wake up and recharge the 12V. Rinse repeat. Now I don't have concrete evidence of this but it could be possibility based on what I know about how Teslas work.

No, that is not how Teslas work. The car sleeps after about 10 minutes and doesn't ping anything. As soon as the car is asleep it will also shutdown the Wifi. It can only come alive if you wake it (then stays alive for 10 minutes) or if there is some BMS that needs calculation (I think the BMS thing is minimal) or the 12V needs charging. If you wake the car via the App it will send a push signal and it will either come (good LTE) or not come through (bad LTE) - the car will still continue to sleep if the LTE is bad.

The only thing that will keep the car alive on the connection end is an incoming software update. Usually Tesla pushes software updates over Wifi and very, very, very rarely over LTE, only when it is critical, at least here in Europe they don't anymore (I believe I only had one pushed to me over LTE over 1 year ago, they stopped doing that a while back)

So here is what happens if you have bad LTE - nothing.

There might bit a bit more strees on the LTE chip until the car is asleep, but that is minimal. I think you are comparing it to your phone, which has about 3000mAh total which in comparison is about 1000Wh(1kWh - 400V). The CPU of the car uses 250-300W or 300Wh in one hour.

So it will take one full battery charge of your phone in 10 minutes to make even a slight uptick on the car and you will still not notice it on the display (1000W for 10 minutes is about 100Wh. 1% on your display is 750Wh so about 1/7 th of % , not even showable...)
And we all know that even at worse Cell reception, the phones don't drain in 10 minutes from 100% to 0%. Which as explained above, will not even make a difference on a Tesla.

If you have bad Wifi or Wifi on - the car will check for updates and might start downloading one. If you have bad Wifi, it will take more time, more time means car is alive longer. And this will result in more drain. Not the bad signal on the Wifi itself, just the slow download.

For people who keep the checkbox in advanced and Tesla pushing updates almost daily, this results in more drain.

The drain really comes from only one place - the MCU which usses about 250-300W at idle.
 

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