Losing interest in the Tesla Brand

[whitex]

But the expectation is that they won't be able to profitably make EVs or offer anything as good as Tesla for around the same price anytime soon.

Not everyone's expectation. Do you really believe etron is a loss compliance Do you think Porsche is going to lose money on each Taycan? I don't think profitability will be much of an issue at the $80K+ price range, especially if you factor in the very same help Tesla has when perfecting their technology, which is $7,500 tax credit. This will be particularly profound on the low end, a competitor $42.5K will cost the same as Tesla $35K car, so they can afford 21% higher costs.

 

[Sunnfun]

I've never had a car brand before where the new model isn't available in a better version than the one you've bought years ago. I'm coming up on my three year lease on our Model S and none of the interior options are still available, not the seat color, headliner or wood trim. Not to talk about that cheap synthetic leatherette material they're now using. Plus the missing sun roof. So we're not buying another Model S for now.

Why on earth would a car manufacturer make it so unattractive to buy another one of their cars? The basic design of the Model S interior is now seven years old and wasn't really that great to begin with compared with the Mercedes we had before. When I heard that Tesla hired the chief interior designer from Volvo I was really hopeful to get a new Model S with a great new interior. Now I'm not so sure... We're holding on to our Model S for now and wait either for a design refresh (If and when that comes, who knows) or an EV from either Mercedes, Volvo or Porsche. We'll see, but Tesla definitely lost a sale this year.

 

[DocZ]

I've never had a car brand before where the new model isn't available in a better version than the one you've bought years ago. I'm coming up on my three year lease on our Model S and none of the interior options are still available, not the seat color, headliner or wood trim. Not to talk about that cheap synthetic leatherette material they're now using. Plus the missing sun roof. So we're not buying another Model S for now.

Why on earth would a car manufacturer make it so unattractive to buy another one of their cars? The basic design of the Model S interior is now seven years old and wasn't really that great to begin with compared with the Mercedes we had before. When I heard that Tesla hired the chief interior designer from Volvo I was really hopeful to get a new Model S with a great new interior. Now I'm not so sure... We're holding on to our Model S for now and wait either for a design refresh (If and when that comes, who knows) or an EV from either Mercedes, Volvo or Porsche. We'll see, but Tesla definitely lost a sale this year.

Agree with this 100%. Very disappointing to see the S get abandoned by Tesla. Those with 3 year leases essentially get the same car with minor upgrades (and in some cases downgrades). They haven’t thought this through very well.

 

[erik_k]

Agree with this 100%. Very disappointing to see the S get abandoned by Tesla. Those with 3 year leases essentially get the same car with minor upgrades (and in some cases downgrades). They haven’t thought this through very well.

Not abandoned. For the last year + it’s been ALL about the Model 3. Getting it out, getting production ramped up, and getting the $35K standard range out. The Model Y shouldn’t been nearly as much effort, so I can see why nobody at Tesla had time to get an S refresh done to coincide with the 3 ramp up.
Doesn’t mean the S was abandoned or that a refresh isn't now higher on the priory list.
I get what you’re saying, and agree the S needs an update before the high end competition is shipping in volume. As of today though I’m not aware of anything you can buy today that tops the S in the EV space except maybe the X.

 

[Sunnfun]

Not abandoned. For the last year + it’s been ALL about the Model 3. Getting it out, getting production ramped up, and getting the $35K standard range out

Agreed, but how does this explain the total radio silence from the design department on the Model S? Or X for that matter. Once the 3 was handed off to production there should've been plenty of resources available for the S/X? I can't imagine to think that the Roadster 2 vanity project is sucking up all the resources now...

As of right now the S is quite degraded from the same car three years ago. Even the AP2 autopilot has just now caught up to the AP1 capabilities; but now you have to pay extra to get summon and auto park as they are no longer part of the (formerly called EAP) AP package. FSD is IMHO a complete head fake that's not realistic for years to come.

I'm pretty sure there are lots of people like us who are postponing a new Tesla purchase in order to wait what's coming from Tesla/Volvo/Mercedes/Audi/Jaguar.

 

[PhilDavid]

Not abandoned. For the last year + it’s been ALL about the Model 3. Getting it out, getting production ramped up, and getting the $35K standard range out. The Model Y shouldn’t been nearly as much effort, so I can see why nobody at Tesla had time to get an S refresh done to coincide with the 3 ramp up.
Doesn’t mean the S was abandoned or that a refresh isn't now higher on the priory list.
I get what you’re saying, and agree the S needs an update before the high end competition is shipping in volume. As of today though I’m not aware of anything you can buy today that tops the S in the EV space except maybe the X.

Well, how about not making the Model S even worse by not removing the sunroof option?

What's happened to the Model S is worse than being abandoned as abandoned means at least they left it alone. With the removal of the sunroof option, they've made the Model S worse than it was, unfortunately. We can;t imagine ordering a new Model S currently when you can no longer buy one with a sunroof.

 

[BestRadar]

Well, how about not making the Model S even worse by not removing the sunroof option?

What's happened to the Model S is worse than being abandoned as abandoned means at least they left it alone. With the removal of the sunroof option, they've made the Model S worse than it was, unfortunately. We can;t imagine ordering a new Model S currently when you can no longer buy one with a sunroof.

Not even being able to customize simple things like trim is ridicules. They have become cookie cutter cars that are all the same with 2-3 interior options.

 

[ucmndd]

Agreed, but how does this explain the total radio silence from the design department on the Model S? Or X for that matter.

Quite simply because Tesla can’t afford to say ANYTHING until the car is essentially in production. Announcing or teasing an upcoming major refresh will immediately and completely tank demand for the current car - an outcome they simply can’t afford the way other manufacturers can.

 

[ucmndd]

Well, how about not making the Model S even worse by not removing the sunroof option?

What's happened to the Model S is worse than being abandoned as abandoned means at least they left it alone. With the removal of the sunroof option, they've made the Model S worse than it was, unfortunately. We can;t imagine ordering a new Model S currently when you can no longer buy one with a sunroof.

They’ve also dramatically reduced the pricing as a result of that streamlining of options. Your preferred outcome? Maybe not, but hard to argue that they’re aren’t some benefits to that approach for the company in terms of keeping demand up.

 

[BestRadar]

Quite simply because Tesla can’t afford to say ANYTHING until the car is essentially in production. Announcing or teasing an upcoming major refresh will immediately and completely tank demand for the current car - an outcome they simply can’t afford the way other manufacturers can.

So its better to piss off a new round of Tesla customers? Just like those who purchased weeks up to the refreshed bumper covers and got screwed with 1 week old cars that already looked outdated with the new refresh in the middle of a year cycle? They need to start having transparency if they want to retain customers. The way they keep going they keep pissing off new customers almost monthly with all the crazy changes they have been making,

 

[BestRadar]

They’ve also dramatically reduced the pricing as a result of that streamlining of options. Your preferred outcome? Maybe not, but hard to argue that they’re aren’t some benefits to that approach for the company in terms of keeping demand up.

And again what about existing customers who's car values keep plummeting because they keep dropping prices on new ones? For over $25k less I can buy the same car with new hardware and many more miles than I paid over 2 years ago. My car that was $113k lost $50k+ in value is just 2 years.. So its once they get a customer they don't care about them anymore and its only focused on new ones? This forum just a few years ago was very positive but their changes over the years has turned many supporters into angry customers and I don't see a change to that trend with the new direction of this company.

 

[ucmndd]

So its better to piss off a new round of Tesla customers? Just like those who purchased weeks up to the refreshed bumper covers and got screwed with 1 week old cars that already looked outdated with the new refresh in the middle of a year cycle? They need to start having transparency if they want to retain customers. The way they keep going they keep pissing off new customers almost monthly with all the crazy changes they have been making,

More likely I see the current price reductions as a way to pacify customers buying the current version as I expect any refreshed version to be significantly more expensive. This is basically the same thing traditional manufacturers do with “end of year discounts” and other price manipulation.

I agree the current pace of change is manic and reeks of just plain making stuff up as they go - but I don’t necessarily agree the right solution is to shift to only model-year changes vs. continuous improvement.

 

[ucmndd]

And again what about existing customers who's car values keep plummeting because they keep dropping prices on new ones? For over $25k less I can buy the same car with new hardware and many more miles than I paid over 2 years ago. My car that was $113k lost $50k+ in value is just 2 years..

I think I said this on the first page of this thread (never mind, it was another one), but I just don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who didn’t expect this outcome buying A luxury-class automobile propelled by emerging technology.

The idea that Tesla owes something to buyers from 2 years ago (and I’m right there in that boat with you) in the form of resale value vs. pricing their cars such that they can actually sell them and remain competitive in a market where the cost of technology comes down over time is just silly to me.

 

[P100DHG.]

I have not received an update in 2 months is this normal?

 

[emmz0r]

I have not received an update in 2 months is this normal?

it's the new norm for the abandoned S/X

 

[Ormond]

I turned in my leased Tesla and did not replace it with another one. I am driving a new ICE-powered SUV. I thought that I’d be happy, but I’m not. I miss driving my Model X. I miss driving an electric vehicle. I miss owning a Tesla.

 

[whitex]

I turned in my leased Tesla and did not replace it with another one. I am driving a new ICE-powered SUV. I thought that I’d be happy, but I’m not. I miss driving my Model X. I miss driving an electric vehicle. I miss owning a Tesla.

Did you reserve you Audi e-tron yet?

 

[traxila]

I turned in my leased Tesla and did not replace it with another one. I am driving a new ICE-powered SUV. I thought that I’d be happy, but I’m not. I miss driving my Model X. I miss driving an electric vehicle. I miss owning a Tesla.

I am shocked that you thought you could leave electric behind.

Whatever complaints anyone may have, many legitimate, many imagined, it will be a rare person who will actually be happy to return to an ICE.

So all I ask of people who desert Tesla, is to please make sure you buy electric.

 

[Ormond]

I’d probably get another Tesla before I’d get the Audi or Jaguar. I wanted something different. I didn’t see any reason to buy or lease a new Model X. The Model 3 would have sufficed, but I prefer a large vehicle. I’m looking forward to a refreshed Model X or perhaps a Rivian.

 

[whitex]

I’d probably get another Tesla before I’d get the Audi or Jaguar. I wanted something different. I didn’t see any reason to buy or lease a new Model X. The Model 3 would have sufficed, but I prefer a large vehicle. I’m looking forward to a refreshed Model X or perhaps a Rivian.

The e-tron looks much better designed as far as driver experience - it has physical buttons so you can do things like turn on headlights with muscle memory, instead of pecking at ever smaller buttons taking eyes off the road for many seconds at a time to change suspension levels, or turn on heated steering wheel. Proper ventilated seats (even comes with massage for front seats if you like that sort of thing), option for rear passengers to control their own heater without the need to give them your app password and asking them to install the app. Then there is pricing, winter package $900 MSRP, 4 year maintenance $999. I know Tesla just announced no maintenance required, but still their maintenance plan was way more expensive.

Of course, I'll still have to drive it for be sure, but it looks much better designed. Also waiting to see and drive the Taycan as a possible alternative. Maybe I'm just not a fan of "let's cram all controls into a giant tablet" concept, which Elon seems to like given the Model 3 direction. Something tells me the software will be finished too, I won't have to wait 9 months for the automatic wipers to start working.