ucmndd
Well-Known Member
How could you possibly argue Tesla has not held up their end of the bargain RE OTA updates?
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Losing interest in the Tesla Brand
- Thread starter P100DHG.
- Start date
How could you possibly argue Tesla has not held up their end of the bargain RE OTA updates?
Krugerrand
Meow
Someone full of it couldn’t have pulled off what he has. The hyper criticism of him is unwarranted. The need to ridicule him at every turn and talk sugar about him is people hating for all sorts of personal inadequacies in themselves. The need to express negativity at every turn is a reflection of those spouting the negativity, not the person being criticized. Elon is a better person than most talking crap about him. Seriously, look in your (general your) own backyard before trashing someone else’s.
OOPS responded to the wrong context. Thought it was about OTA and the "gift that keeps on giving"
And I was about to get on a rant on what 3 VS S/X gets.Was just thinking of @P100DHG. which is still on 2018.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I think we just want Elon to stick with the truth and reality. It’s not asking much.
Your latest posts expose the axe you grind, for Tesla. Now VW is better. That's a joke, right?
I had a TDI and have a P85D, and follow both these sagas, from each an environmental (AECD, WVU, NOx .07gr/mi, etc.) and a track/sports perspective, closely.
If Musk sells "691 Motor Power" (because he never said "691HP") or he open-ended promises too much, how is that the same as a car colossus certifying compliance before the EPA and then, in a couple years, walking off with tax-benefits and a "Green Car of the Year" award for deliberate fraud?
With the VW saga, people should understand a reason they escaped larger European fines is because the US had alternative emissions control device, or "AECD" disclosure rules, where the EU only called for (doctored) lab results. So, they doctored them. If you want to go down the path of comparing what diesel owners went through, to why won't my Tesla won't "at least meet me at the curb " then please, step back and take a breath. They were paid wholesale trade, given $5,000, and left without a car.
You said you didn't have a diesel, so maybe take a look at TDIclub.com, and search things like "cracked DPF", "P0401", clogged turbos, EGRs, or simply trust that when VW says a $23k car "needs a $5,500+ exhaust repair (at 85k Mi)", that you are in a worse place than "I checked FSD, where is it", or "My (single-geared) P85D doesn't feel like 691HP".
VW was mechanically screwing these owners, long before the environmental September 2015 new came out. Maybe watch (re-watch?) the "Dirty Money" Netflix show (for actual depositions), or read the Newsweek "Hoaxwagen" article, before you scratch an itch to take Tesla this far down. It wasn't just the environmental fraud (emitting 35-40x worse NOx, because they just wholesale left SCR off). It was the profit-taking on non-serviceable parts, or the engine-light hostage taking that is also helping make Tesla so popular.
Sorry, your Tesla experience has been so unreliable, whiteX. I am at a period in my life where I want to put away the diagnostic software, and leave my roll-aways closed while my kids are still home. The brand has done that, for me. And now that I'm coming out of warranty, I think I can figure out a door handle limit-switch.
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He never said VW is better and you can go back and read what he said.
All he said is that based on the logic some people are using, then VW didn't do anything wrong.
I think we can all agree that Tesla makes the best cars available to buy and it's better to just stick to the simple truth.
whitex
Well-Known Member
VW could gave fixed the emissions by lowering the horsepower of the cars they sold. Yet they thought customers would not accept a car with lower horsepower than advertised, hence they bought out the car at almost new prices instead. Tesla on the other hand chose to give customers BS and nothing else. VW is are spending billions now making clean EV cars, including 2 billion in building non-proprietary superchargers in the US, so why not support their effort to create clean cars by buying them, especially if they make a better product than Tesla? At least they are attempting to rectify their wrong, what is Tesla doing for customers they lied to?
whitex
Well-Known Member
VW cheated on emissions in order to give people more hp. They could have released a firmware fix which would meet emissions and lower the horsepower. So, VW chose to pollute to give customers what they advertised, Tesla chose to deliver 2/3 of what they advertised and pollute - they didn't have an option to pollute and deliver, so we can't say whether they would or would not do that - given how they have been treating their sales staff lately trying to force them to quit to avoid paying severance, their ethics are not clean. VW broke laws, so they had to pay major fines, plus they are now going all-in on EV's too, so why not support them? By buying their EV product you support cleaner air.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I am not saying I want to buy a TDI instead of a Tesla. I am saying I am considering the etron or Taycan, so those should be compared from an environmental, track/sports, and overall ownership experience.
I am getting there, and that's why I am thinking Audi or Porsche. The two VW's I has were Passats, V6 and W8. Had them for about 4 years, did nothing but scheduled maintenance except the W8 needed new rotors after 2 years because they warped (covered under warranty). Teslas required a lot more service, and yes, even me fixing things myself because the wait would have been too long to do it through Tesla (while the car might not be driveable).
I have no reason to disagree.
My point made earlier about VW emissions scandal vs. Tesla's delinquencies was the aftereffects magnitude of the VW's case: The immense negative impacts of excess NOx emissions on people's health.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I think it may be hard to compare ripping people off to environmental impact - apples and oranges. For example, if you had to compare, what is worse: Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme or VW dieselgate? Technically Bernie didn't affect the environment, so not as bad as VW?
Anyways, I was responding to people saying they wouldn't buy an EV from VW owned company for environmental reasons. I don't see how it makes any difference to the environment whether I buy an EV from Tesla or VW. Heck, VW being the largest auto maker in the world. I would think supporting them so they keep making more cheaper EV's may actually be better for the environment. In the end however, for me as a customer, I care about who provides a better product, taking into account all facets of "better" - environmental, ownership, features, price, etc. Better in this case should be qualified as "better for me", since people do have different -priorities and preferences, for example some do prefer the "all controls in one big tablet" and/or "features dropped over years of ownership instead of feature-complete at delivery" model, I don't.
That thought gives me chills sometimes, if parts supply is a nightmare as it is whilst they are still in business imagine if they went bust. You could literally end up with a $100K museum exhibit in your garage that can't go anywhere.
thegruf
Active Member
Relax. Telsa won't go bust.
They're way past that rubicon now, the Launch of the Model3 did that.
Even if they were to fail, they would be immediately picked up by another company. The brand and their IP is far too valuable.
As to VW (so that's VAG - VW Audi Porsche Seat Skoda et al) - I'm sorry but there is simply no comparison with Tesla.
Tesla have done some dumb stuff and undoubtedly said things that they have not delivered upon, acted in a way that I thoroghly disagree with and damamged my faith, along with many others, in the brand . The problem here is the unbridled power of Musk and the relative ineptitude of his Sales and Marketing function on his board to implement his strategies in an effetive manner.
VAG/VW however are the worlds largest auto manufacturer, established for decades, who very deliberately as a major corporation sought to evade emissions regulations and are responsible for thousands of deaths and pollution misery particularly in European cities. Even when found out they weaseled their way out of as much of the fallout as they could. The company should have been compelled to fully compensate all for the damage they caused and then broken up. The board should have been disqualified from being directors for life and those directly responsible should have been put in jail for life.
They're way past that rubicon now, the Launch of the Model3 did that.
Even if they were to fail, they would be immediately picked up by another company. The brand and their IP is far too valuable.
As to VW (so that's VAG - VW Audi Porsche Seat Skoda et al) - I'm sorry but there is simply no comparison with Tesla.
Tesla have done some dumb stuff and undoubtedly said things that they have not delivered upon, acted in a way that I thoroghly disagree with and damamged my faith, along with many others, in the brand . The problem here is the unbridled power of Musk and the relative ineptitude of his Sales and Marketing function on his board to implement his strategies in an effetive manner.
VAG/VW however are the worlds largest auto manufacturer, established for decades, who very deliberately as a major corporation sought to evade emissions regulations and are responsible for thousands of deaths and pollution misery particularly in European cities. Even when found out they weaseled their way out of as much of the fallout as they could. The company should have been compelled to fully compensate all for the damage they caused and then broken up. The board should have been disqualified from being directors for life and those directly responsible should have been put in jail for life.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Here, corrected that statement for you. I agree with the rest of it, that there needs to be criminal responsibility for dieselgate, however being the largest auto manufacturer I fully support them moving to EV, and pulling the rest of the industry along with them:
The ‘Tesla Effect’ hits Germany as VW, Daimler, and BMW fully commit to EVs
So yes, if they make a better EV than Tesla (better for me, overall better which includes price, features, service, ownership and driving experience) I will absolutely buy their products.
thegruf
Active Member
No. I will not buy VAG/VW/Porsche/Seat/Skoda vehicles ever again.
Whilst VW were fined heavily in the US and effectively forced to take non-compliant vehicles off the road, in the UK/EU they have suffered no such retribution.
As a result in the UK/EU vehicles from VAG/VW/Porsche/Seat/Skoda continue to excessively pollute our cities, their residents and in particular their children reducing their lifespan each and every day due to the fraudulent behaviour of the company that the authorities here are too inept and impotent to address.
I will however most certainly consider other competitor vehicles. Bring them on.
What we are all looking at though is, if Tesla are the Apple of the auto world, who is the Google and who are the Nokias and Microsofts.
It's a fair bet that VAG see the opportunity to be the Google and are seeking to maximise that position to pressure others into being the also- rans. The wildcard will be how quickly will China come up with an auto equivalent of Huawei etc.
Whilst VW were fined heavily in the US and effectively forced to take non-compliant vehicles off the road, in the UK/EU they have suffered no such retribution.
As a result in the UK/EU vehicles from VAG/VW/Porsche/Seat/Skoda continue to excessively pollute our cities, their residents and in particular their children reducing their lifespan each and every day due to the fraudulent behaviour of the company that the authorities here are too inept and impotent to address.
I will however most certainly consider other competitor vehicles. Bring them on.
What we are all looking at though is, if Tesla are the Apple of the auto world, who is the Google and who are the Nokias and Microsofts.
It's a fair bet that VAG see the opportunity to be the Google and are seeking to maximise that position to pressure others into being the also- rans. The wildcard will be how quickly will China come up with an auto equivalent of Huawei etc.
Commodore
Member
Jay Gould used to run these kinds of schemes... to gain unfair advantage, too. Tesla's competition is clearly not as good as Tesla.
Tesla Inc. is in the grip of stock manipulation, as well. (...and trolls are here for that very reason)
I believe everything will be fine because Tesla's products are the best. They are, in fact, the best that ever have been made.
Certainly, everyone can (ultimately) understand the market dynamics behind apparently strange marketing moves.
Tesla Inc. is in the grip of stock manipulation, as well. (...and trolls are here for that very reason)
I believe everything will be fine because Tesla's products are the best. They are, in fact, the best that ever have been made.
Certainly, everyone can (ultimately) understand the market dynamics behind apparently strange marketing moves.
These last pages show you weighing the ethics of both companies, and there is no comparison. Bringing up Taycan and etron is a deflection.
Yeah, VW would have saved themselves trouble with gas-only ICE. If we sterilize decisions down to what sits on four tires we can go back and forth, but the company people buy from puts us someplace else. If that's where you want to go; jockeying miss-deeds, all I can suggest is don't. No matter what shows up, these two companies are managed to work in opposite directions.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I think they are mainly out of the woods. That's why Elon has been so cocky and weird starting with the "bonehead questions" incident. Re-listen to the 2018 Q1 conference call. Elon knows they have made it and are ready to take over the world.
Yes but wouldn't it be easier to take over the world, without unnecessary drama and distractions?
