Losing interest in the Tesla Brand

[electronblue]

so by your logic everything and anything that Elon Musk says is "concrete"?

All those three numbered points were in the Design Studio where Model S/X cars were bought. None were from Elon. None of them have been fulfilled.

Only the January 2017 tweet was from Elon which pretty much everyone believed at the time (perhaps the likes of @Bladerskb a notable difference). 2019 is very different from 2016 in Tesla world.

Very few people believe Elon Musk as they did anymore of course today.

 

[OilSucks]

We care about Tesla to point out that massive policy changes implemented daily and weekly without thinking them through is not good for Tesla, their customers, or their employees.

Very easy to be a fan and justify and come up with excuses to everything they do. Some of us might take their decisions personally because we are rooting for Tesla to succeed and want them to do well and think through the decisions they make a bit more.

How would you feel now if you were in Tesla Sales and had to support a family?

You jumped from being a fan to some appeal to emotion with your Tesla Sales point... Look I feel terrible for them but to be honest, and I think a lot of other people can agree on this, the Sales team was not the best at what they do. I found my experience with my Sales Advisor to be one of the poorest experiences I've ever had. She was dishonest, shifty, and even went so far as to lie when she 'accidentally' cancelled my original order. Communication with her was absolutely poor and it really killed my excitement of the brand.

On top of that, have you driven or even gone into some of these low foot traffic Tesla Sales Centers? They are ghost towns. There is literally 3 sales workers standing around doing nothing. It's excess fat on a company that needs to be as lean as possible.

 

[Big Toys]

[QUOTE="PWlakewood, posDoes anyone actually know how many teslas have had issues that the service center had to be involved? [/QUOTE]

Emperically, enough that you'll need your monthly calendar and a day off mid-week before you'll get an appointment.

 

[PWlakewood]

[QUOTE="PWlakewood, posDoes anyone actually know how many teslas have had issues that the service center had to be involved?

[/QUOTE], enough that you'll need your monthly calendar and a day off mid-week before you'll get an appointment.[/QUOTE]

What I meant was of the people that 'had to get service" what were the actual issues or just entitlement/whiner needing to have that god awful creak in your dash fixed.

 

[PhilDavid]

You jumped from being a fan to some appeal to emotion with your Tesla Sales point... Look I feel terrible for them but to be honest, and I think a lot of other people can agree on this, the Sales team was not the best at what they do. I found my experience with my Sales Advisor to be one of the poorest experiences I've ever had. She was dishonest, shifty, and even went so far as to lie when she 'accidentally' cancelled my original order. Communication with her was absolutely poor and it really killed my excitement of the brand.

On top of that, have you driven or even gone into some of these low foot traffic Tesla Sales Centers? They are ghost towns. There is literally 3 sales workers standing around doing nothing. It's excess fat on a company that needs to be as lean as possible.

By all means close stores that are not generating traffic.

Not announce the closure of all stores to reverse the decision shortly thereafter.

No one is advocating for not deploying sales resources wisely. Just think through decisions a bit more in the future.

Something like over 70% of Model S were configured with a sunroof before they removed that option. Yeah t might ave them some but it used to be an expensive option and now we'd rather buy a used car with a sunroof than a new one without one.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Tesla is an uncontrolled train wreck at this point. I'm one of Tesla's biggest fans, but they need to dump Musk. He is now Tesla's biggest liability and largest obstacle to profitability and stability. Some call him a genius. I say he is not fit to be CEO and has proven that to everyone repeatedly. From his emotional outbursts at analysts during earnings calls, to SEC violations, to engaging in behavior unbecoming of a CEO (smoking pot, really?). It's fine if he wants to live on the edge like this, but not while he is CEO of a publicly traded company on which many depend for their livelihoods. He needs to pick one, he can't have both. He's running Tesla into the ground.

Some will expound endlessly about how Musk needs to do whatever it takes in order to keep the company alive, excusing his poor leadership and bad behavior. Musk is the one who made all of the decisions that resulted in this mess. You don't give someone credit for cleaning up a mess that they, themselves, created. That's like gushing over Exxon-Mobile's response to the oil spill and environmental crisis they caused. Hold Musk to the same standards as any CEO. If it was Apple doing these things everyone would be calling for Tim Cook's head.

Let's not forget, Musk wasted "hundreds of millions" (his words) on a failed Model 3 assembly line that had to be scrapped. This alone should have been reason to fire him. Instead of using what works, he has to reinvent the wheel at every turn. That is not only expensive, but leads to a lot of very public failures.

Let's face it. Everything that's wrong with Tesla is also everything that's wrong with Elon Musk.

 

[lunitiks]

Thanks. Made me cry

 

[islandchick]

I say take back all the Model 3s ala EV1 to weed out the poor folk *gasp* demanding value for their money and "diluting the brand", deliver the new Roadster starting at $500k, stick to what has been working so far - just say, "we're new, we're still working out the kinks" as an excuse for poor initial quality, poor customer service, and nightmarish purchasing sagas; and "it's not a car, it's a COMPUUUUTER" as an excuse for random pricing decisions and any issues that come up after purchase. Add to that a Jetson's car to take the place of the S/X with some sort of magical swirling door so people can ooh and aah and pay $200k to come on here and blow smoke and drive around in their personal clouds of smug, while Elon laughs all the way to the bank.

Truly, there is no need to make an affordable product. There are many, many luxury brands who do just fine not sullying their reputations by wallowing in the mud with the unwashed masses. But you will need to produce a product that is sufficiently impeccable.

 

[bmah]

Moderator note: Moved an inflammatory post (and one reply that quoted it) to Snippiness.

This thread concerns topics that people may disagree strongly about. Please keep your comments respectful.

Thank you,

Bruce.

 

[lunitiks]

 

[PhilDavid]

Tesla is an uncontrolled train wreck at this point. I'm one of Tesla's biggest fans, but they need to dump Musk. He is now Tesla's biggest liability and largest obstacle to profitability and stability. Some call him a genius. I say he is not fit to be CEO and has proven that to everyone repeatedly. From his emotional outbursts at analysts during earnings calls, to SEC violations, to engaging in behavior unbecoming of a CEO (smoking pot, really?). It's fine if he wants to live on the edge like this, but not while he is CEO of a publicly traded company on which many depend for their livelihoods. He needs to pick one, he can't have both. He's running Tesla into the ground.

Some will expound endlessly about how Musk needs to do whatever it takes in order to keep the company alive, excusing his poor leadership and bad behavior. Musk is the one who made all of the decisions that resulted in this mess. You don't give someone credit for cleaning up a mess that they, themselves, created. That's like gushing over Exxon-Mobile's response to the oil spill and environmental crisis they caused. Hold Musk to the same standards as any CEO. If it was Apple doing these things everyone would be calling for Tim Cook's head.

Let's not forget, Musk wasted "hundreds of millions" (his words) on a failed Model 3 assembly line that had to be scrapped. This alone should have been reason to fire him. Instead of using what works, he has to reinvent the wheel at every turn. That is not only expensive, but leads to a lot of very public failures.

Let's face it. Everything that's wrong with Tesla is also everything that's wrong with Elon Musk.

I respect you greatly but why can't we have something in the middle?

Elon is the reason Tesla exists and he has pushed Tesla to do the impossible. Unfortunately, lately there has been self-destructive and impulsive acts without considering the ramifications and this is what needs to be curtailed. We all love Elon and he is the reason EVs are about to take over the world. He just needs to find someone like Shotwell to run Tesla, so he can go after the big ideas and not mess with the day to day operation of the company unless he has thought through the ramifications of what he's proposing. I wish he'd stop with the "run the company by tweet mentality" as it is harming both customers and employees and without which, there would be no Tesla.

• They were having issues with selling CPO cars, rather than fix any of those issues, they came up with the most awful way ever to buy a car. Why not charge more to sell quality cars and employ resources as needed? The moment Porsche and other have CPO EVs, this current fiasco of how they sell cars won't continue as customers balk at being treated so poorly.
  
• In their quest to "simplify" ordering a car so it fits a dumb cellphone screen, they eliminated the sunroof from the Model S, that's probably one of the top 3 most popular options. So now if you want a Model S with a sunroof, go buy a used one.
  
• With the SEC situation, I agree with ELon's position but for heaven's sake, why taunt the SEC? Why bring this distraction on yourself and the company?
• The whole closing stores thing... Why not study the situation, lease obligations and come out with well thought out plan where they close a certain number of stores every quarter? I also disagree with some of their numbers that show most customers "place an order" away from the store. Well, it is a Tesla store that originally "converted" us with a test drive and we placed the order at home but we may never have placed that order without having access to a Tesla store

There are of course many other examples but what they all have in common is they could all have been executed with way less drama with some time taken to analyze the decisions rather than Tweet first, think later approach.

I admire Shotwell so much as she has somehow managed to run SpaceX very smoothly (at least from the outside!) while keeping Elon motivated and excited about big ideas and changing the world... Could she run Tesla as well as the COO?

 

[thegruf]

I admire Shotwell so much as she has somehow managed to run SpaceX very smoothly (at least from the outside!) while keeping Elon motivated and excited about big ideas and changing the world... Could she run Tesla as well as the COO?

This is the point I have been trying to make for some time.
Tesla need a Shotwell,
Of that there is no doubt.

I believe the current board are not functioning as they should and some really crass decisions particularly in sales and marketing are being made that are damaging the brand, Elon has mighty sway no doubt (as he should imho) but the board as a whole are there to take reasoned decisions in the best interests of the company.

Unfortunately not the Shotwell as I think it would be folly in the extreme to jeapoadise her invaluable role at Spacex - indeed when the future looks back historically at this era, Shotwell will be one of the most important names name in the history books.

 

[whitex]

Uh, not quite. I buy a 4k tv for 2000 and they tell me that if I pay 100 extra I will get 8k as soon as it is available, subject to software and the FCC approving 8k broadcasts. In the interim, Samsung upgrades certain of the internals (local dimming from edge lit, new UI and apps, faster processor) and sells that TV for 1500, also with a promise for 8k as soon as it is available ( and in addition to the lower price it charges only 50 bucks for the upgrade). The new owner has a more capable set and it cost her less. I'm still entitled to 8k whenever it comes out, and in the meantime I get the benefit of some, but not all, of the new features, but I will get 8k when everyone gets 8k. This model is repeated on so many consumer electronic devices (I can pay for Denon to upgrade certain aspects of my 2YO receiver, but I can still buy a slightly newer receiver that has all that I paid to upgrade to and more for less money). Yes, people paid for FSD, but there was no promise when you bought it (per the express terms) that it would roll out in the first 6 months or first six years of ownership. There was always the possibility that it wouldn't happen during your period of ownership. I lease mine, and I could pay the 2k now in order to get it when it comes out. Say it happens with 6 months left in my lease, and I then make an appointment with the service center to get HW3 swap out which happens with 2 months left in my lease. In deciding to make that payment, I have to decide whether I am ok with the possibility of the scenario happening, or worse, that HW3 is only available after I turn in my car, in which case my 2k bought me nothing. That is not a ripoff. As Doug Stanhope would say, that makes me a gambling addict. Not trying to argue the nuance of what Elon suggested might/could/should happen, only the basic legal terms of one's agreement with Tesla. And as to the UI, there was no promise it would stay the same, or just the way you like it. Read your EULA. I did. Some love it, some hate it, some could care less.

Your analogy is incorrect. No 8K for your TV and no refund. 8K in this case would be unattended driving - ride hailing, car sharing, your Tesla driving your friends and family or making you money driving itself for Tesla ride sharing network.

You are correct on one thing, the fine print does in the literal interpretation mean that your car may turn to dust before you receive any of the FSD features to use.

 

[whitex]

@whitex You missed only one part. There is no visibility that early FSD buyers will actually get early delivery of anything. Chances remain many of them will get things later than new buyers.

2.5 years of wait and not a single FSD package exclusive feature shipped yet — then retrofit price halved for new buyers. Great deal 2.5 years ago.

Good news, Tesla just delieved 3 of 5 FSD features (NoA, autopark, summon). All they had to do is redefine FSD to consist of already delivered EAP features (in beta stage, but at they can claim they delivered FSD features). Elon figured out how to deliver FSD without any new functionality.

 

[BestRadar]

Good news, Tesla just delieved 3 of 5 FSD features (NoA, autopark, summon). All they had to do is redefine FSD to consist of already delivered EAP features (in beta stage, but at they can claim they delivered FSD features). Elon figured out how to deliver FSD without any new functionality.

Yeah and summon still does nothing except go forward and backward a few feet if you are lucky enough to connect and it sees you are close enough.

 

[BestRadar]

I think the most important aspect of losing interest is not all the broken promises but Tesla is becoming boring. I liked having a unique vehicle but dumping hundreds of thousands of inexpensive cars out there that all look the same bores me. If Tesla does not come out with something real exciting and special most others that spent $100k on Tesla cars in the past will lose interest as well.

 

[electronblue]

I think the most important aspect of losing interest is not all the broken promises but Tesla is becoming boring. I liked having a unique vehicle but dumping hundreds of thousands of inexpensive cars out there that all look the same bores me. If Tesla does not come out with something real exciting and special most others that spent $100k on Tesla cars in the past will lose interest as well.

True. Lessening of color and trim options have made even the more expensive Teslas boring. The chances of seeing an identical one are very high compared to your usual premium car.

It is not that long ago when you have a bunch of different interiors, trims and more exterior colors to freely choose from... now it is basically a more limited number of exterior colors and two-three interior packs.

There’s hardly any ”making it your own”...

 

[BestRadar]

True. Lessening of color and trim options have made even the more expensive Teslas boring. The chances of seeing an identical one are very high compared to your usual premium car.

It is not that long ago when you have a bunch of different interiors, trims and more exterior colors to freely choose from... now it is basically a more limited number of exterior colors and two-three interior packs.

There’s hardly any ”making it your own”...

Definitely true... Glad I purchased a sun roof on mine because you cant even get one of those anymore.. Stupid.

 

[Nocturnal]

I think the most important aspect of losing interest is not all the broken promises but Tesla is becoming boring. I liked having a unique vehicle but dumping hundreds of thousands of inexpensive cars out there that all look the same bores me. If Tesla does not come out with something real exciting and special most others that spent $100k on Tesla cars in the past will lose interest as well.

I think you purchased the wrong brand then. It's not like Tesla's mission has changed in this time.

 

[BestRadar]

I think you purchased the wrong brand then. It's not like Tesla's mission has changed in this time.

Today you are right. I like to be unique and different and I plan on dumping my Model S as soon as some new and interesting new EV's come to the market.