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Lost Supercharging on car bought from 3rd party dealer

TwistedGray

Ludicrous > Ludacris
Mar 12, 2021
290
253
Monterey Bay, CA
That doesn't work if the seller has another Tesla in their account. As even them moving it to a different account that they own triggers a change of ownership where Tesla removes features. (People have found this out the hard way when they wanted to re-arrange how they managed their Tesla accounts and they lost non-transferrable FUSC when they moved it from one of their personal accounts to another one.)

Then there is the issue that @KArnold brought up, is Tesla will sometimes verify that the person bringing it in for service matches what their records show. What if you have to call Tesla to remotely unlock your car, are you going to claim to be the other person?
What about authorized drivers?

Before transferring ownership to me, I had a service call. I was an authorized driver, and they didn't bat an eye at the service center.
 

Aidan02

Member
May 17, 2021
6
3
Missouri
I can see where some type of compensation from the third party seller would certainly be warranted if the car was advertised to have free supercharging or even Full Self Driving or AP and Tesla removed any one of those features. The free supercharging is probably the hardest to determine a fair value for since Tesla only sold it on the early 40's and 60's for $2,000 extra. So that's the only gauge on it's "value", but that was 8-9 years ago. FSD is easier to determine market value and is a feature that's typically listed on the window sticker, unless the owner purchased it after the fact. As with any type of case, they likely negotiated an amount that was agreed upon by both sides. The buyer certainly would have had justification for a lawsuit against the third party dealer for selling something that doesn't exist. Oops wait, maybe not, Tesla's been doing that for years! LOL. (Full Self Driving, New Roadster). Glad it got resolved for the OP in apparently, a satisfactory manner.

My recommendation, after having purchased and sold several Tesla's, if ever buying a used car from a private party person, ask the seller to set up a separate account for their Tesla that they won't need anymore, Then, DON"T TELL TESLA YOU BOUGHT IT!! Things with the car will stay the same. Simply change the e-mail and password on the EXISTING account and take it over without filling a transfer of ownership with Tesla. Naturally, still have to register the car in your state, but that's separate from telling Tesla you bought a used car. Tougher to do if you purchase it from a third party dealer. Unless the dealer is willing to contact the prior owner to get you access to the account the car is under in the same manner. Something a smaller deal "might" consider, but not probable and certainly unlikely from a larger dealership.
This is exactly what ended up happening to me. We’re dealership advertised it for free as one of the main selling points to the car. However, upon entry into the car on first delivery it did not have it. So I filed a complaint with them... ended up being resolved, however, planning on keeping the car through college and it not having it was a major blow.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,832
35,359
Oregon
The free supercharging is probably the hardest to determine a fair value for since Tesla only sold it on the early 40's and 60's for $2,000 extra. So that's the only gauge on it's "value", but that was 8-9 years ago.
Actually the better gauge was when Tesla gave people a $5k refund to turn off non-transferable FUSC on the Model 3 Performance. And Elon said it was worth more.
 

TwistedGray

Ludicrous > Ludacris
Mar 12, 2021
290
253
Monterey Bay, CA
This is exactly what ended up happening to me. We’re dealership advertised it for free as one of the main selling points to the car. However, upon entry into the car on first delivery it did not have it. So I filed a complaint with them... ended up being resolved, however, planning on keeping the car through college and it not having it was a major blow.

So what did they give you in terms of compensation?
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,616
7,945
Seattle area, WA
I only recall Tesla removing SC from 2017+ cars where the SC was tied to the first owner. I may have missed it but this is the first time I have read of this happening to a pre 2016 car in which the SC was for the life of the car regardless of transfers of ownership.
If the car is traded into Tesla, they have the legal right to remove anything and everything they want, since they become the legal owner of the car (heck, they can remove all the passenger seats if they want to). From what I've read reported here, they have removed FUSC for all years of cars and FSD from lots of AP2/2.5/AP3 cars (warning, some AP2 used car buyers reported FSD was permanently removed, no ability to buy it back, probably too expensive to retrofit an AP2.0 car). The legal grey area (or Elon scam) is when Tesla suddenly clarified their terms that even the oldest of cars lost FUSC even if not traded to Tesla, but sold through a 3rd party dealer. Part of that clarification was also that they removed the language about FUSC being transferrable for the life of a car, so there is possibility they'll start claiming it's only transferable once. Yes, Elon is that slimy of a car salesman.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,616
7,945
Seattle area, WA
$2000 was for the ability to supercharge - which was also free for life. The ability to supercharge is really more than 50% of the value in my opinion.
We have a 2015 S and a 3. The S never gets supercharged anymore because it is too slow so we drive the 3 on SC trips even though the 3 costs to supercharge.
What can I get from Tesla since I lost the ability to supercharge? 40kw is not "super" charging.
I can't say that I would have paid more than $500 for the supercharging (at current rates if it wasn't free) I did and I have 92k miles. I do realize that FUSC for some is very valuable. But for the average person, that "free" part is not worth as much as they think it is. Full speed is worth more.
It was $2,000 pre-delivery, $2,500 post delivery. It was also required to enable any DC charging, but later Tesla introduced a DC charging enablement only for $2,000 IIRC (save $500 if you don't want to use superchargers). I agree that the value in dollars is not that much. I've owned 4 Model S over 8 years and used about 2,500KWh of supercharging between all cars, most of it on a coast-to-coast round trip. So for me, I agree that even $2,000 is too much, as long as the car is DC and supercharging enabled for free. That said, I do believe Tesla should honor the FUSC for life of the car for all cars they sold which never some back to them, but Elon is laser focused on profit and new customer acquisition, not customer retention, so he couldn't care less - every penny counts.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,616
7,945
Seattle area, WA
You have to be careful with that, because people don't always know the complete history. For example:
  • Tesla sells care with lifetime, transferrable, FUSC.
  • Original owner trades car in to Tesla for another Tesla.
  • Tesla removes transferrable FUSC, and sells the car with FUSC limited to the current owner.
  • Second owner sells the car to the third owner.
  • Tesla turns off FUSC because it wasn't transferrable.
The third owner thought they were buying a car that never went back to Tesla, and had transferable FUSC because of the model year of the car and that they bought it private party, but it had already gone through Teslas hands and had the transferrable FUSC taken away.
And this is why the fact whether the FUSC is transferrable should be clearly visible in the car, at the very least in the user account. Tesla website used to show it in the personal account section, but they took that feature out so there is no clear information they could be held to. Instead, you can call someone at Tesla who tells you one thing, then find out it wasn't true and Tesla just shrugs, perhaps tells you the person who told you the original story was wrong and/or doesn't work there anymore. No refunds of course. Welcome to a whole new level of sleazy car salesman stereotype - it's not just "would you like rust-proofing with your car sir" and "what can we do to put in you this car today". Laws haven't caught up to Elon's genius talking car salesmanship to the 21st century.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,616
7,945
Seattle area, WA
That doesn't work if the seller has another Tesla in their account. As even them moving it to a different account that they own triggers a change of ownership where Tesla removes features. (People have found this out the hard way when they wanted to re-arrange how they managed their Tesla accounts and they lost non-transferrable FUSC when they moved it from one of their personal accounts to another one.)

Then there is the issue that @KArnold brought up, is Tesla will sometimes verify that the person bringing it in for service matches what their records show. What if you have to call Tesla to remotely unlock your car, are you going to claim to be the other person?
To be fair, Tesla does allow sub-accounts (well, once you can create via the web, if you need more, you need to contact them in person), so there is no need to transfer the ownership from the top level account, just create a sub-account. Of course, there will always be the top level account which has access to all sub-account Teslas, so it may not be a perfect solution for selling, but definitely works if you buy a Tesla for your kid and want your kid to access only their own Tesla.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,616
7,945
Seattle area, WA
Actually the better gauge was when Tesla gave people a $5k refund to turn off non-transferable FUSC on the Model 3 Performance. And Elon said it was worth more.
I would take it in a hearbeat on both my Teslas, one lifetime (until Tesla steals it) and one non-transferable. I can't even get them to reimburse me $1,000 for replacing my MCU1 EMMC chip, so I doubt they would give me $10K to remove FUSC from both the cars. I would ever repay for any supercharging I did on them to-date. ;)
 
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kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
110
194
Los Angeles, CA
To be fair, Tesla does allow sub-accounts (well, once you can create via the web, if you need more, you need to contact them in person), so there is no need to transfer the ownership from the top level account, just create a sub-account. Of course, there will always be the top level account which has access to all sub-account Teslas, so it may not be a perfect solution for selling, but definitely works if you buy a Tesla for your kid and want your kid to access only their own Tesla.
I just told them I didn't want both cars controlled from the same app. And I really didn't. So I created a separate account to put my other Tesla on anyway, so each had their own account. Of the one's I've sold, I pre-warned the buyer. Not only is it usually a 30-90 day wait for the new buyer to just get the car into their account, they could lose features. Hence, have just given them the account I set up for the car and let them take it over and make it theirs. As far as I'm aware, each are still in existence with no issues. I put in their info, they went in and changed the password and had instant app access to the used car they purchased. My first Model 3 was used and I was stuck with that damn key card thing for nearly 3 months before Tesla finally got around to it.
 

kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
110
194
Los Angeles, CA
That doesn't work if the seller has another Tesla in their account. As even them moving it to a different account that they own triggers a change of ownership where Tesla removes features. (People have found this out the hard way when they wanted to re-arrange how they managed their Tesla accounts and they lost non-transferrable FUSC when they moved it from one of their personal accounts to another one.)

Then there is the issue that @KArnold brought up, is Tesla will sometimes verify that the person bringing it in for service matches what their records show. What if you have to call Tesla to remotely unlock your car, are you going to claim to be the other person?
We transferred the new owners name into the Tesla online account. So when they looked it up, it was his name. The car simply stayed in the same cyber place on the net, yet the details of that particular place (The Tesla Account in which the car was under), were changed piece by piece. You can change just about everything yourself from the website.

Just like AT&T now owns my DirecTV account. It never changed for me, but it's a new place and company that took over my account. Details change, car stays in the same place.
 

boonedocks

MS LR Blk/Blk 19” OD-1/1/21 RN#1143376 NO Date
May 1, 2015
2,893
4,615
Gainesville GA
I ended up with $1700 in cash. Lawsuits can be generous but a major headache. I can be fine without it. Charging at the house is also relatively cheap.
That would buy unlimited supercharging for every Tesla I have ever owned and ever will own. (5 total now). SC is just not a thing for normal thing for us. BTW all 4 Model S' I have sold had 95%+ range of their original full charge and all had over 50k miles.
 

phaphaphooey

Member
Mar 26, 2018
105
52
USA
If the car is traded into Tesla, they have the legal right to remove anything and everything they want, since they become the legal owner of the car (heck, they can remove all the passenger seats if they want to). From what I've read reported here, they have removed FUSC for all years of cars and FSD from lots of AP2/2.5/AP3 cars (warning, some AP2 used car buyers reported FSD was permanently removed, no ability to buy it back, probably too expensive to retrofit an AP2.0 car). The legal grey area (or Elon scam) is when Tesla suddenly clarified their terms that even the oldest of cars lost FUSC even if not traded to Tesla, but sold through a 3rd party dealer. Part of that clarification was also that they removed the language about FUSC being transferrable for the life of a car, so there is possibility they'll start claiming it's only transferable once. Yes, Elon is that slimy of a car salesman.

I never got into the legalities of what Tesla can or cannot do, I only stated that I couldn't recall reading about FUSC being removed from an earlier car.
 

Boeingpilot

Member
Oct 11, 2018
159
353
Central PA
If the car is traded into Tesla, they have the legal right to remove anything and everything they want, since they become the legal owner of the car (heck, they can remove all the passenger seats if they want to). From what I've read reported here, they have removed FUSC for all years of cars and FSD from lots of AP2/2.5/AP3 cars (warning, some AP2 used car buyers reported FSD was permanently removed, no ability to buy it back, probably too expensive to retrofit an AP2.0 car). The legal grey area (or Elon scam) is when Tesla suddenly clarified their terms that even the oldest of cars lost FUSC even if not traded to Tesla, but sold through a 3rd party dealer. Part of that clarification was also that they removed the language about FUSC being transferrable for the life of a car, so there is possibility they'll start claiming it's only transferable once. Yes, Elon is that slimy of a car salesman.
Which is why I would advise anyone transferring a car to always state private party sale. NOT third party dealer. Tesla had no right to know where you bought your car from
 

Boeingpilot

Member
Oct 11, 2018
159
353
Central PA
That would buy unlimited supercharging for every Tesla I have ever owned and ever will own. (5 total now). SC is just not a thing for normal thing for us. BTW all 4 Model S' I have sold had 95%+ range of their original full charge and all had over 50k miles.
Ok, but in my case 4 times a month I commute 180 miles to / from work. No way to do a round trip w/o supercharging. I bought my car expressly because it has FUSC. in 7 months I’ve already put 13k mikes in it, and that includes a month I was off work for illness. For every person who says FUSC isn’t a big deal there’s another that IT IS a big deal
 

boonedocks

MS LR Blk/Blk 19” OD-1/1/21 RN#1143376 NO Date
May 1, 2015
2,893
4,615
Gainesville GA
Ok, but in my case 4 times a month I commute 180 miles to / from work. No way to do a round trip w/o supercharging. I bought my car expressly because it has FUSC. in 7 months I’ve already put 13k mikes in it, and that includes a month I was off work for illness. For every person who says FUSC isn’t a big deal there’s another that IT IS a big deal
I agree SuperChargers are a big deal.....just not necessarily free being a big deal.
 

Boeingpilot

Member
Oct 11, 2018
159
353
Central PA
I agree SuperChargers are a big deal.....just not necessarily free being a big deal.
Doing the math, if I were to pay for SC my cost per mile would be about what my ICE car was. I did not buy the Tesla because I care about sustainability, or carbon emissions. Bought it because I have a long drive and wanted a relatively economical car for the amount of driving i do. If it was going to cost me what the old car did, I’d have kept it or (horror!) gone back to a VW TDI
 
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ngng

Member
Jul 23, 2018
901
421
Bay Area
Ok, but in my case 4 times a month I commute 180 miles to / from work. No way to do a round trip w/o supercharging. I bought my car expressly because it has FUSC. in 7 months I’ve already put 13k mikes in it, and that includes a month I was off work for illness. For every person who says FUSC isn’t a big deal there’s another that IT IS a big deal

I looked specifically for a car with FUSC as well. Don't care about FSD or any of that other stuff! I would have spent $500 last month on SC, if I were to pay for it.
 

ngng

Member
Jul 23, 2018
901
421
Bay Area
Doing the math, if I were to pay for SC my cost per mile would be about what my ICE car was. I did not buy the Tesla because I care about sustainability, or carbon emissions. Bought it because I have a long drive and wanted a relatively economical car for the amount of driving i do. If it was going to cost me what the old car did, I’d have kept it or (horror!) gone back to a VW TDI

Pre-scandal TDIs were great. Probably because they didn't pass emissions 🤣
 
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