Lots of questions about the new base Model Y coming out of Texas

[dfwatt]

What we know about this base model is that it is $3,000 cheaper than the significantly longer (17%) range dual motor Model Y (which was the previous base model), that it does have dual motors also, probably has an LFP battery pack based on the 4680 cell, has the premium sound system and slightly less acceleration (0 to 60 in 5 seconds as opposed to 4.8 on the long range and 3.5 on the performance model).

But tons of questions!

1 does it have the twin front and rear castings? If so it should weigh significantly less. We also have to assume that if it's got the 4680 cell, it's got the structural battery pack also but has someone confirmed that?
2 will you be able to purchase acceleration boost? Rumor has it that it's got a new motor that is derivative of the performance motor but with a different hairpin setup?
3 if it's lfp chemistry, one would expect that you can charge to 100% fairly routinely, mitigating the modest range deficit?
4 I think we have to assume that it's got a heat pump but probably also the new ryzen processor.
5 what other surprises has Tesla baked into this model? One has to assume that this is highly similar to what they were selling to their employees off of the early production runs in Texas?

 

[240vPlug]

2) not able to ATM and not sure if it will be available in the future.
3) it's not an LFP pack. It uses the same chemistry as the LR and P packs. Just with 4680 cells.
4) it's the same just has a smaller capacity pack with slightly reduced range and power output.

 

[E90alex]

1) yes it has front and rear giga castings and structural battery pack. Weight difference is insignificant vs 2170 LR

2) not currently

3) not LFP

4) yes. Although currently LR from Fremont are supposedly coming with matrix LED headlights. All Austin cars both base and LR have the older reflector headlights. Otherwise they are identical in features to LR.

5) yes. It has been available for inventory purchase for a few months already, but just now officially added for actual ordering.

 

[Watts_Up]

If I remember correctly, the previous MY with 4680 cells was RWD?
But I don't think there was an on-line way to order it?

Anyway, for this previous MY with 4680 cells, what was its price, range, and acceleration values?

 

[E90alex]

There was never a RWD 4680 Model Y

 

[Watts_Up]

There was never a RWD 4680 Model Y

But then, was there a previously any kind of RWD Model Y?

I could not find the information about the previous Model Y with 4680.
How was it possible to order it? I don't think it was listed on the Tesla order web page?
Does the spec and price were similar to the current Model Y AWD with 4680 cells?

 

[dfwatt]

But then, was there a previously any kind of RWD Model Y?

I could not find the information about the previous Model Y with 4680.
How was it possible to order it? I don't think it was listed on the Tesla order web page?
Does the spec and price were similar to the current Model Y AWD with 4680 cells?

That may be available only out of China. The current one on the website for sale in the USA the so-called base Model Y which is a giga Texas car, is a 0 to 60 in 5 seconds, 279 mi range dual motor for 51,000 dollars

 

[dfwatt]

I'm a bit shocked by the confirmation that the difference between the base Model Y and the other DM model Y with a 2170 cells is only 20 lb. I thought or at least was led to believe that the use of gigacastings would save about 50 to 100 lb each and the structural battery pack another 100 lb. Additionally, because the pack in the base Model Y is smaller in terms of kilowatt hours I would have expected more weight loss there too. Wondering why none of these weight savings materialized?

 

[E90alex]

But then, was there a previously any kind of RWD Model Y?

I could not find the information about the previous Model Y with 4680.
How was it possible to order it? I don't think it was listed on the Tesla order web page?
Does the spec and price were similar to the current Model Y AWD with 4680 cells?

There was briefly a Y SR RWD available in the US but it did not use 4680 battery.

There is a Y RWD sold in other countries that use LFP battery.

There was no previous Y with 4680. The Y AWD with 4680 battery available now is the exact same as the one that started being offered “off menu” about a year ago. Started off being available for employees only, then it was offered to regular buyers near Texas waiting for a Y LR as a faster delivery option, then it eventually became available across the country as an inventory car only. Now it’s available to configure and order directly off the website like LR and Y.

 

[dfwatt]

I'm a bit shocked by the confirmation that the difference between the base Model Y and the other DM model Y with a 2170 cells is only 20 lb. I thought or at least was led to believe that the use of gigacastings would save about 50 to 100 lb each and the structural battery pack another 100 lb. Additionally, because the pack in the base Model Y is smaller in terms of kilowatt hours I would have expected more weight loss there too. Wondering why none of these weight savings materialized?

Some recent postings suggest that actually the battery pack on the base Model Y is sold in a software limited state. Probably something like 80% of its full capacity. This means that you can charge to full without worrying about battery degradation, and should mean that at some point Tesla will offer a range bump for a fee obviously ($3000-5,000 to get to the full range?) Also there are conflicting reports about charging speed. There is evidence that the car goes quickly to the 250k maximum rate on version 3 superchargers, quicker than 2170 packs, and the 4680 pack was originally advertised to go from 10 to 80% in 15 minutes but that has not been confirmed and actual testing suggests something closer to 25 minutes which is not meaningfully different from 2170 packs. However Tesla may be deliberately limiting charging speed until they have more experience with the 4680 pack to confirm that it is not going to be degraded (or worse set on fire!) by faster charging.

 

[Randy S]

There was briefly a Y SR RWD available in the US but it did not use 4680 battery.

There is a Y RWD sold in other countries that use LFP battery.

There was no previous Y with 4680. The Y AWD with 4680 battery available now is the exact same as the one that started being offered “off menu” about a year ago. Started off being available for employees only, then it was offered to regular buyers near Texas waiting for a Y LR as a faster delivery option, then it eventually became available across the country as an inventory car only. Now it’s available to configure and order directly off the website like LR and Y.

This one is what I have for almost one month. 2023 MYAWD

 

[dfwatt]

This one is what I have for almost one month. 2023 MYAWD

How do you like it? Thinking of helping out our son who is vehicle challenged so that the can join the Tesla family and that looks pretty attractive!

 

[E90alex]

Some recent postings suggest that actually the battery pack on the base Model Y is sold in a software limited state. Probably something like 80% of its full capacity. This means that you can charge to full without worrying about battery degradation, and should mean that at some point Tesla will offer a range bump for a fee obviously ($3000-5,000 to get to the full range?) Also there are conflicting reports about charging speed. There is evidence that the car goes quickly to the 250k maximum rate on version 3 superchargers, quicker than 2170 packs, and the 4680 pack was originally advertised to go from 10 to 80% in 15 minutes but that has not been confirmed and actual testing suggests something closer to 25 minutes which is not meaningfully different from 2170 packs. However Tesla may be deliberately limiting charging speed until they have more experience with the 4680 pack to confirm that it is not going to be degraded (or worse set on fire!) by faster charging.

Source? I have not seen any of that.

If it’s 80% capacity that would mean it gets more range than LR if full capacity is unlocked, which makes zero sense.

Munro did a full tear down of the 4680 and never once suggested the pack capacity is software limited. It’s a physically smaller capacity battery than the 2170 LR pack.

 

[bro1999]

There was briefly a Y SR RWD available in the US but it did not use 4680 battery.

Yep, it was around for less than a week in early 2021. Introduced at $43k, and the price was actually dropped to $40k for 2-3 days, then Tesla killed the SR-Y and it was never seen again. Lol
I wish I had jumped at the $40k SR-Y....ended up with a $41k SR+ 3 several months later.

 

[dfwatt]

Source? I have not seen any of that.

If it’s 80% capacity that would mean it gets more range than LR if full capacity is unlocked, which makes zero sense.

Munro did a full tear down of the 4680 and never once suggested the pack capacity is software limited. It’s a physically smaller capacity battery than the 2170 LR pack.

Tesla Giga Texas-Made Model Y with 4680 Battery Cells Shows Signs of Range Limitation by Software

Model Y with 4680 battery cells shows signs of artificial range limitation. Considering that the performance of the new battery cells is higher compared to 2170, this could be a real case.

www.tesmanian.com

I've heard conflicting reports but here's the real puzzle: if this was as people have also reported a reduced-sized pack it makes no sense that the vehicle weighs almost exactly the same as a LRAWD car with a 2170 pack. That seems physically impossible if they're using the same chemistry. Additionally the 4680 cells should create a pack that is physically smaller because it has a higher energy density then the 2170 cell. In any case I think we've got several questions with a lack of definitive information. I called the local Tesla sales Center and they didn't seem to know much of anything. In fact the woman complained that a lot of people had asked questions about the base Model Y that they couldn't answer. She said "my employer doesn't seem to like giving me very much information"

 

[dfwatt]

Source? I have not seen any of that.

If it’s 80% capacity that would mean it gets more range than LR if full capacity is unlocked, which makes zero sense.

Actually it's sort of does make sense. Because of the Osborne effect Tesla has been very worried that people would dump the 2170 cars and just load up demand on the 4680 cars. If they intentionally limit the 4680s to some future date, that reduces that problem plus they have a potential income stream in terms of unlocking range and Power- something that a lot of owners would gladly pay for, and where for that future price increase the owner is actually getting a car that is slightly better than the original full price long range all-wheel drive car with the 2170 pack. So I think it actually makes a lot more sense that they released the 4680 dual motor car such that it is barely competitive with the 2170 even with the price reduction. If that is their strategy it's freaking brilliant.

 

[E90alex]

Tesla Giga Texas-Made Model Y with 4680 Battery Cells Shows Signs of Range Limitation by Software

Model Y with 4680 battery cells shows signs of artificial range limitation. Considering that the performance of the new battery cells is higher compared to 2170, this could be a real case.

www.tesmanian.com

I've heard conflicting reports but here's the real puzzle: if this was as people have also reported a reduced-sized pack it makes no sense that the vehicle weighs almost exactly the same as a LRAWD car with a 2170 pack. That seems physically impossible if they're using the same chemistry. Additionally the 4680 cells should create a pack that is physically smaller because it has a higher energy density than the 2170 cell. In any case I think we got several questions with a lack of definitive information.

4680 does not currently have a higher energy density than 2170. They have not yet successfully implemented all the planned technologies that would make the 4680 superior to 2170.

 

[E90alex]

Actually it's sort of does make sense. Because of the Osborne effect Tesla has been very worried that people would dump the 2170 cars and just load up demand on the 4680 cars. If they intentionally limit the 4680s to some future date, that reduces that problem plus they have a potential income stream in terms of unlocking range and Power- something that a lot of owners would gladly pay for, and where for that future price increase the owner is actually getting a car that is slightly better than the original full price long range all-wheel drive car with the 2170 pack. So I think it actually makes a lot more sense that they released the 4680 dual motor car such that it is barely competitive with the 2170 even with the price reduction. If that is their strategy it's freaking brilliant.

Even if it was software limited, it would be more beneficial to lock out the top of the pack and not the bottom for better battery health/longevity.

So the suspicions that Tesla is software limiting it based on there’s no power reduction down low and it hits 250kW charging faster indicates they locked out the bottom of the pack, which doesn’t make sense. That’s more likely an inherent benefit of the larger cells, not that it’s software limited.

 

[dfwatt]

4680 does not currently have a higher energy density than 2170. They have not yet successfully implemented all the planned technologies that would make the 4680 superior to 2170.

My understanding is that part of the delay has been that the theoretical advantages of the 4680 cell have been difficult for them to actually practically realize so I think I agree with you in General on this. It is apparently more difficult to produce than Tesla estimated. But I think we've seen this movie before

 

[dfwatt]

Even if it was software limited, it would be more beneficial to lock out the top of the pack and not the bottom for better battery health/longevity.

So the suspicions that Tesla is software limiting it based on there’s no power reduction down low and it hits 250kW charging faster indicates they locked out the bottom of the pack, which doesn’t make sense. That’s more likely an inherent benefit of the larger cells, not that it’s software limited.

I agree with you that they probably locked out the top of the pack if in fact they are selling it software limited. However it does not by any stretch prove that they locked out the bottom that the cells go to faster charging rates quicker than the 2170 cell. That was one of the most hyped benefits of the tab-less architecture. So I don't think that creates any contradiction of the kind you're describing