Low Power System Service Required

[Pantera Dude]

Yeah the part is likely coming from the Sunnyvale service center . When my switchpack went out, I told them to expect another owner from the forum so their service folks got two of them.

Thanks Asgard! :biggrin:

 

[asgard]

So the dilemma is: connect OVMS back or not?

 

[pharma5]

So the dilemma is: connect OVMS back or not?

For what it's worth, I added a Tesla Tattler after my old switchpack was replaced - no issues yet (knock wood). Service's position was it's ok; Tesla Motors neither endorses nor withholds endorsement of the Tattler.

I imagine other v1.5 owners can probably vouch for use of the OVMS.

 

[wiztecy]

FYI on the switchpack.

All Roadsters have them. 1.5, 2.x's. They all go out and there's no correlation to the models for which goes out more from what I heard. Also low amp draw components like OVMS and back up cameras really are not the root cause, but since its something Tesla didn't install from the factory, Tesla has to remove to protect themselves which I understand. The switchpack was spec'd to handle that and more amperage pull.

Some things that are early signs of a switchpack failure:

CANBUS errors on the 12v system.
-LED rear tailight bulb is out error
-Headlight bulb error
Things of that nature that are not blown, meaning that all the LEDs are lit in the tail-light but the canbus error still occurs.

The one one thing I think we need to find out is a clean way to reset the 12v system. Something that buys us enough time to get the Roadster home or at least off the side of the Road safely.

Any ideas?

There was the open/close the charge port door 10x trick.

Once the switchpack is removed it goes out for analysis and then sent to be refurbished. Unfortunately these are channels that don't provide a feedback loop to us who want to understand this stuff better and provide better feedback back to Tesla. Just the way things are with that system right now.

 

[Doug_G]

FYI on the switchpack.

All Roadsters have them. 1.5, 2.x's. They all go out and there's no correlation to the models for which goes out more from what I heard. Also low amp draw components like OVMS and back up cameras really are not the root cause, but since its something Tesla didn't install from the factory, Tesla has to remove to protect themselves which I understand. The switchpack was spec'd to handle that and more amperage pull.

I don't agree with that. Every car on the planet has user accessories plugged into their 12V power, either occasionally or constantly. The power draw of these devices is demonstrably trivial. There is no engineering reason to remove them. The policy is NOT reasonable.

 

[asgard]

I don't agree with that. Every car on the planet has user accessories plugged into their 12V power, either occasionally or constantly. The power draw of these devices is demonstrably trivial. There is no engineering reason to remove them. The policy is NOT reasonable.

I sent an email to Tesla service last week asking exactly that. They promised to forward to the engineering team. Have not heard back yet.

 

[pharma5]

Also low amp draw components like OVMS and back up cameras really are not the root cause, but since its something Tesla didn't install from the factory, Tesla has to remove to protect themselves which I understand.

I read this part differently than others - thought "has to remove to protect themselves" meant exclude/disclaim from warranty coverage... did I get that wrong?

I don't use the main 12v port on the center console (never have), but do have the Tattler plugged into the data port as normal, and have heard no advice to the contrary from service. Then again, I am also out of warranty.

Thanks again, Wiztecy for getting and sharing all the info and would welcome anything more you can find out. :biggrin:

 

[wiztecy]

I read this part differently than others - thought "has to remove to protect themselves" meant exclude/disclaim from warranty coverage... did I get that wrong?

I don't believe Tesla would void a warranty if the OVMS and possibly an aftermarket backup camera was installed. What I was pointing out was that Tesla just installed a new/refurbished part by their technicians under warranty. If the technicians put back the aftermarket components, then in some way, they could be responsible if say the switchpack blew that day or sometime close to the install. It just keeps their hands clean somewhat and is somewhat of a protocol for what you were saying, if say something aftermarket due to a defect of that product caused a factory component to fail. Hope that makes sense.

 

[pharma5]

I don't believe Tesla would void a warranty if the OVMS and possibly an aftermarket backup camera was installed. What I was pointing out was that Tesla just installed a new/refurbished part by their technicians under warranty. If the technicians put back the aftermarket components, then in some way, they could be responsible if say the switchpack blew that day or sometime close to the install. It just keeps their hands clean somewhat and is somewhat of a protocol for what you were saying, if say something aftermarket due to a defect of that product caused a factory component to fail. Hope that makes sense.

Yes it does, thanks! I wouldn't expect the techs to reinstall anything aftermarket unless it is specifically endorsed by TSLA.

I don't think TSLA would void a warranty exactly, but maybe (?) there's a future policy question of replacing a switchpack (component with foibles) under warranty if there are aftermarket items used regularly on it ("untested" items that may or may not impact operating life by some increment). So far doesn't sound like anyone with warranty had to pay, right...?

Ultimately, we've got a $1000ish custom board in our limited run, out-of-production cars that may be a bit more failure-prone than some of the other components. Ideally, it would get a long-term fix (new board design, more robust, capable of handling regular 12V loads like other cars, etc.). At a minimum, TSLA would keep well-stocked with original boards so they don't run out, maybe add a diagnostic to tell when they are about to go and swap proactively (preventive maintenance).

I mean, if it's one fail every five years (assuming mine was original) I can probably deal because the car is so special... if it gets closer to one every 2 years, that cuts into my tire budget!:wink:

 

[wycolo]

Switching power supplies that supply 10 to 20 amps @ 12 volts from 120 to 240 volts AC (auto select) are rather common devices. Only thing different here would be running it from ~400 v DC but that should be a trivial design adjustment. After all switching p/s are native to DC input, but they do tolerate AC. It ain't rocket science.
--

 

[asgard]

Switching power supplies that supply 10 to 20 amps @ 12 volts from 120 to 240 volts AC (auto select) are rather common devices. Only thing different here would be running it from ~400 v DC but that should be a trivial design adjustment. After all switching p/s are native to DC input, but they do tolerate AC. It ain't rocket science.
--

Off the shelf 400V DC to DC converters are pretty widely available and is not the issue at all. Around $200 for this one:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Cosel/DBS200B12.shtml
The switchpack appears to power several critical components and reports back status, heartbeat and health.
The problem is getting the switchpack firmware open-sourced.

 

[ecarfan]

I'm reviving this old thread (which I have read through from start to finish) as today my 1.5 started to display the same exact error code and FAULT alert in the speedo gauge, it will not shift into R or D, also is displaying a TPMS alert which I suspect is bogus because several months ago I had them all replaced. Car is currently charged to my usual standard range of 162. Background info: for the past several months I have had a heads-up speedo display plugged into the 12V outlet, before that I always had an iPhone charger plugged in there. Also have an OVMS in my car for over a year now. I doubt any of those devices caused the problem based on my reading of this thread. Recently had an annual service done, no issues were found. About 28K miles on the car. I am the second owner.

I called my local Service Center in Burlingame CA and was requested to pull the log file and upload it to the Tesla server so that could analyze it, and I have done that. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who had their 12V switchpack board replaced and what the cost was. I am anticipating that this will not be an overnight repair because of the challenge of sourcing a replacement board.

Don't recall exactly(?), but had the impression it sits between the high voltage setup of the main battery pack (ESS) and all the low voltage items like the 12V outlet, door release, maybe other dash instrumentation. (Roadster v1.5's do not have a separate 12V battery and use a sheet or two in the ESS).

When I first reported error 1416, I was asked about the amber FAULT light on the dash and whether I'd been using the 12V outlet a lot and if would still work with something plugged in. (I'd never used the 12V outlet... worked fine when asked to test, but car would still start and drive at that point...I had error 1416 several times before finally the nonstart). There was quite a bit of effort getting the right replacement part - it seems that switchpacks evolved over time with the Roadster, and that most of the replacement stock was of later configuration.

 

[pharma5]

Anyway, the estimate to replace the switchpack was $1540, OUCH! I can't wait to get it back. The part is coming from northern California and should be here tomorrow. So they picked up the car on Tuesday and say it will be ready on Thursday, we'll see. Pretty quick turn around if they pull it off. They tell me the part is new.

I'm reviving this old thread (which I have read through from start to finish) as today my 1.5 started to display the same exact error code and FAULT alert in the speedo gauge, it will not shift into R or D, also is displaying a TPMS alert which I suspect is bogus because several months ago I had them all replaced. Car is currently charged to my usual standard range of 162. Background info: for the past several months I have had a heads-up speedo display plugged into the 12V outlet, before that I always had an iPhone charger plugged in there. Also have an OVMS in my car for over a year now. I doubt any of those devices caused the problem based on my reading of this thread. Recently had an annual service done, no issues were found. About 28K miles on the car. I am the second owner.

I called my local Service Center in Burlingame CA and was requested to pull the log file and upload it to the Tesla server so that could analyze it, and I have done that. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who had their 12V switchpack board replaced and what the cost was. I am anticipating that this will not be an overnight repair because of the challenge of sourcing a replacement board.

I don't recall the exact number quoted, but PDude's number above from upthread still sounds right. Over $1000. I got the impression mine took longer to match because of other quirks in the earliest cars... may be quicker on a later 1.5 if they've got stock.

Hope things go smoothly for you, and would be interested in any info on how the switchpack stock is doing. Back in 2013, I remember thinking they should get some new ones made.

Still avoid my 12V outlet like the plague, even though I never used it prefailure.

 

[josh-io]

ecarfan, I had the same problem a few weeks ago. #483 displayed a Low Power System error, along with a TPMS error. A few minutes later, I was able to start the vehicle, and both the TPMS and Low Power System errors went away. However, the radio and the heated seats no longer work. I assume this is a switchpack problem. I would love to hear what the SC says when they look at your car, since I'll probably be following in your footsteps soon.

 

[ecarfan]

Haven't been able to start the car yet. Low Power System error still there, when I dismiss it the TPMS error displays, I dismiss that the Low Power System error comes back.
Tesla Service asked me to check the #23 fuse. I removed the fuse panel cover and looked. My car does not have a #23 fuse. The printed fuse layout diagram on the back side of the fuse panel color shows the #23 fuse as being in the middle of the top row. But the fuse numbers in the diagram do not match up at all with the actual numbers I see on my fuses (note: I have never touched them before).
So I pulled the middle fuse in the top row, which is labeled on the fuse as "15" and inspected it, it looks intact to me.
Informed Tesla Service and waiting to hear back.
Below is a photo of my fuses and a photo of the printed diagram on the back side of the fuse box cover. As you can see, they do not correlate.

 

[Habious]

Haven't been able to start the car yet. Low Power System error still there, when I dismiss it the TPMS error displays, I dismiss that the Low Power System error comes back.
Tesla Service asked me to check the #23 fuse. I removed the fuse panel cover and looked. My car does not have a #23 fuse. The printed fuse layout diagram on the back side of the fuse panel color shows the #23 fuse as being in the middle of the top row. But the fuse numbers in the diagram do not match up at all with the actual numbers I see on my fuses (note: I have never touched them before).
So I pulled the middle fuse in the top row, which is labeled on the fuse as "15" and inspected it, it looks intact to me.
Informed Tesla Service and waiting to hear back.
Below is a photo of my fuses and a photo of the printed diagram on the back side of the fuse box cover. As you can see, they do not correlate.

I'm trying to figure out if you're joking or not, so as to gauge the proper level of my snarkiness in my response. I will assume you're not kidding and adjust accordingly.

The numbers on the fuses are NOT the fuse numbers. That's not "fuse #15"...that's a "15 Amp fuse". Fuse #23 is a 15A fuse...and yes, top row...middle...is fuse #23 (according to the diagram you posted)

 

[ecarfan]

I'm trying to figure out if you're joking or not, so as to gauge the proper level of my snarkiness in my response. I will assume you're not kidding and adjust accordingly.

The numbers on the fuses are NOT the fuse numbers. That's not "fuse #15"...that's a "15 Amp fuse". Fuse #23 is a 15A fuse...and yes, top row...middle...is fuse #23 (according to the diagram you posted)

Was not joking. Didn't realize that was the case. Not an auto mechanic. Thanks.

 

[ecarfan]

My 1.5 is now at the Burlingame Service Center. They are very busy and say they may not be able to run diagnostics on it until next Monday, but hopefully start looking at it on Friday (no time to look at it tomorrow). Darn.
Had to flatbed the car in. First time I've ever put it in Tow Mode. At least I know the tow hook really can take the strain of having the car pulled up onto the flatbed. Heard a lot of creaking noises coming from the car during that process.

 

[Habious]

Was not joking. Didn't realize that was the case. Not an auto mechanic. Thanks.

Sorry for the snarkiness...I know you're not new here (Senior Member), and provide a lot of helpful info to people (7,000+ posts). I just assumed that was one of those tidbits of information that everyone knew.

My 1.5 is now at the Burlingame Service Center. They are very busy and say they may not be able to run diagnostics on it until next Monday, but hopefully start looking at it on Friday (no time to look at it tomorrow). Darn.
Had to flatbed the car in. First time I've ever put it in Tow Mode. At least I know the tow hook really can take the strain of having the car pulled up onto the flatbed. Heard a lot of creaking noises coming from the car during that process.

Sadly, I can attest to this fact as well. Mine just got towed away on Saturday, deader-than-snot. I've had to utilize the tow hook more than once. I'm thinking I should keep a 10mm wrench in the trunk, so I can remove the front plate in an emergency...when (at this point I'm not willing to say "if") it dies again.

 

[ecarfan]

Habious, sorry to hear about your Roadster having to be towed! (Note: just read about it in your thread at Powertrain Problem: Restart When Safe (Error 909) )
I don't run a front plate on mine so placing the towing eye was easy.