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Lowering Springs and Suspension Issues

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by SouthBayGuy, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. SouthBayGuy

    SouthBayGuy Member

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    I will be expecting my TM3 within a few weeks and am already thinking about lowering the car about 1.5". But am concerned about the camber and toe adjustment that may be required after I lower my car. It seems the TM3 stock suspension does not have enough adjustment to account for the 1.5" drop. As result, uneven tire wear will result. It looks like aftermarket camber arms and toe arms are available. But there are not a lot of choices at the moment.

    I was wondering if other TM3 owners who have lowered their cars can share their experiences here? For example, are you seeing uneven tire wear after you lowered your car even after an alignment? Or have you purchased something like camber arms or bushings? Would also like to hear from those who have lowered their TM3 themselves. I have personally lowered a few cars myself. But the TM3 suspension looks different from others.
     
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  2. tracksyde

    tracksyde Member

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    • Informative x 1
  3. Blu Angel

    Blu Angel Member

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    SouthBayGuy,

    Congrats on your impending TM3 arrival!
    I too am expecting my own Blue 3 real soon.

    I share your sentiments about uneven tire wear while lowering the suspension.
    I chose to go with MPP (Mountain Pass Performance)

    Model 3 | Mountain Pass Performance

    I just ordered their suspensions parts.
    2 rear toe arms & 2 rear camber arms & 4 coilover shocks.
    I like their 10 year racing experience and found their prices the most reasonable
     
    • Informative x 1
  4. linkster

    linkster Active Member

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    BA
    Are you certain that you won’t have enough adjustment with factory toe links or might they be wearing a higher duromter performance bushing that you seek? A quick visual seemed that I have a decent amount of travel on the rear toe eccentric. My 3 won’t require the same amount of camber correction as my S. I realize the S is different, but I only needed “stretched” TLs when I exceeded .250” long ULs. Glad to see cost effective aftermarket suspension bits available. Please keep us informed on your findings.

    Good-luck!
     
  5. Blu Angel

    Blu Angel Member

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    linkster,
    My decision to go with MPP coilover shocks is really pretty basic.

    First, the driving & handling improvements over regular pot-filled roads in the Toronto area

    Secondly, the reduction of unsprung weight by substituting the OEM
    shocks with the coilovers.

    Btw, the coilovers will use sealed bearings so that all the yucky road salt & moisture stays out

    Perhaps, Sasha of MPP can chime in with his expert advice
     
  6. SouthBayGuy

    SouthBayGuy Member

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    Linkster,

    I am not 100% positive my TM3 does not have a enough camber & Toe adjustment to lower my car 1.5". When my car arrives, I was planning on taking it to an alignment shop to ask for their opinion first. I will keep everyone posted with my findings. But it may take weeks for my car to arrive.
     
    • Like x 2
  7. MountainPass

    MountainPass Vendor

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    Hi guys,

    There is NO camber adjustment on the Model 3 front or rear. Due to the multi-link suspension design the rear gains camber at a fairly rapid rate, so when lowering more than 25mm you really need to correct camber to prevent excessive inside tire wear.

    The argument that there is no more camber than a Model S has when it's fully lowered on the air suspension is somewhat of a moot point in our opinion, as there are companies that made extended upper control arms for the Model S for the very reason to correct the camber when the car was lowered!

    The main advantage to our toe arms, other than the increase in adjustment precision, is that they remove the soft bushing for a sealed spherical bearing. This makes a big difference in steering and platform feel, especially when using a sticky summer tire.

    So while the camber arms are needed for adjust-ability, the toe arms are more of a performance upgrade.
     
    • Informative x 4
    • Helpful x 1
  8. sperkin

    sperkin Member

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    How much are the coilovers? Sine there is nothing to compare it to, maybe $2000-$3000 for the total package may seem reasonable.
     
  9. Blu Angel

    Blu Angel Member

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    Sperkin,
    Best to contact MPP directly

    I got on the pre-sale right away and reserved the new coilovers
    Be sure check out the video showcasing the testing in The Palo Alto area.

    They go up Old La Honda which I've been up on a bicycle! Lots of fun but
    a tad quicker in the TM3
     
  10. DefPlug

    DefPlug Member

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    No need to take it to an alignment shop- as Mountain Pass mentioned- there is ZERO adjustment for front or rear camber on a 3. You would be able to (and need to) adjust toe on front and rear for the new nominal height but the camber will be out out of spec and wear out the inside of the rear tires pretty quickly without an adjustable link.
     
  11. itskv

    itskv Member

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    Toe is what kills tires faster than Camber. Unless you have tons of camber, i wouldn't worry about the wear.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. SouthBayGuy

    SouthBayGuy Member

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    Mountain Pass,

    Just to clarify, Nice to see you have camber arms for the rear. But if there is no adjustment for camber in the front, do I need to worry about excessive tire wear for front tires with a drop of about 38 mm or 1.5 inches? If so, any plans to come out with something for the front to allow camber adjustment for the front?
     
    • Like x 2
  13. linkster

    linkster Active Member

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    #13 linkster, May 6, 2018
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
    M-P, I second SBG! Please let us know if y’all are currently working on some slick front camber adjustment bits and when they might become available to us shade-tree mechanics o_O so that I don’t have start down the one-off custom route as I did with my S in '13 in order to help me achieve 51K+ miles on my original 21” Contis. Thank-you.

    btw, if there is too little real estate up front for adjustability, might y’all offer various replacement bits in say.... .25, .5, and 1 degree increments?
     
  14. SouthBayGuy

    SouthBayGuy Member

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    FYI. I got an update from Mountain Pass:

    "Front camber adjustment and spherical bearings are planned for sure, hopefully before the end of the summer we'll have something produced on those. "

    This is good news as it seems like a terrible waste to replace tires when just the inside tread is worn.

    Just to add to this, an alignment shop once told me that negative camber was not such a big deal when skinny tires were standard with most cars. But now days, tires are much wider and the consequence of negative camber is really apparent. It makes sense. I just never though about it.
     
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