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LR AWD competition-1/4 mile

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by 1.21GW, May 14, 2019 at 7:15 PM.

  1. 1.21GW

    1.21GW Member

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    There have been a few members getting below 12.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile with the regular dual motor. This places the car among some fairly elite competitors, some of which are surprising. Here are a few examples;

    Corvette stingray/ grand sport
    Camaro SS/ 1LE
    Mustang GT350

    What other cars are in this same category?
     
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  2. xp3nd4bl3

    xp3nd4bl3 New Member

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    Looking at the ET can be deceiving. ET is very dependent on how the car launches - certainly the Tesla's strength here. The mph is really a better indicator of how "fast" a car is and is usually a product of weight and power. If these cars could launch as well as the Model 3 they'd be dramatically quicker (they're already dramatically faster).

    This is not to take anything away from Tesla, they've done an amazing job with torque and traction management. Truly spectacular, really.
     
  3. 1.21GW

    1.21GW Member

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    "The 1LE wins the 0-60 sprint, doing so in 4.1 seconds versus the Mustang GT's 4.4 seconds. By the end of the quarter mile, the Camaro is still in the lead but not by much: 12.5 seconds at 115.2 mph for the Chevy versus the Mustang's 12.6 seconds at 115.1 mph." - MotorTrend

    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/camaro/2018/2018-chevrolet-camaro-ss-1le-vs-2018-ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-comparison/

    Although, I wish my car had their stopping distances.."1LE's six-piston binders haul it to a dead stop from 60 mph in 93 feet."
     
  4. GregD60

    GregD60 Member

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    Most of the difference in stopping distance is due to the tires. Put some tires on your car, similar in stickiness to the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3s that come on the 1LE, and you'll notice a substantial improvement in stopping distances.
     
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  5. ngogas

    ngogas Active Member

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  6. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Yup- with PS4s tires (in stock size) Model 3s instead are seeing stopping distances in the high 90s rather than the 125-130ish on the all-seasons.

    Likely that'd improve slightly more with significantly wider versions... (the 1LE has crazy wide tires, I think like 305s rear and 285s front)

    The brakes don't stop the car, the tires do.
     
  7. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    Time for a rewording I think - the brakes stop the wheels, the tires stop the car..
     
  8. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    But that implies more brakes=shorter stopping, and that just ain't so.

    Whereas more (stickier anyway) tires DOES equal shorter stopping.

    Once the brakes are producing more force than the tires can use- which even the stock brakes can on any production car in recent years- adding more braking force is totally wasted.

    The vehicle will continue to decelerate at the rate governed by the coefticient of friction between the tires and the road.

    Hence why big brake kits don't actually stop a car any shorter- but stickier tires do.



    You can see the tendency to not understand this in the exact bit the previous poster quoted- "1LE's six-piston binders haul it to a dead stop from 60 mph in 93 feet."


    No... the very sticky and very wide tires do that. More or less brake pistons don't change stopping distance.
     
  9. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    Disagree that that implication follows as a rule.

    While I agree that, in ideal conditions, bigger brakes don't stop a car beyond what the tire's friction can provide, there are plenty of cases where it's not so black and white or ideal .. heat dissipation being one of those cases .. even driving in rain can be one be an example like ability to shed water off the rotor.

    I'm just saying what you said is just a bit simplistic ... and since I keep reading it 'everywhere' it seems more info might be more useful.
     
  10. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    But it really is black and white. It's pretty basic physics.

    Bigger brakes can not stop a car any shorter than stock brakes can, if both can engage ABS. Which again every production car I'm aware of going back at least a decade or two can do.

    Even in the rain.


    GRM Pulp Friction

    Author teaches SAE master classes on braking systems, has written books on the topic, and has designed braking systems for racing teams, vehicle OEMs, and brake OEMs (like Stoptech). He explains what each part of the braking system can, and can't do for you.

    And why the tires not the brakes are what stops the car.


    If you need more sources I can quote you Brembo, Stoptech, Road and Track, even the folks who nationally test police car equipment, all making the exact same point... upgrading your brakes can't reduce your stopping distance, because physics.


    Sticker tires are the only way to do that.



    Changing your brakes CAN do many OTHER things (the link I provide describes them for each part of the system)....

    one of them includes maintaining the same stopping distance over many repeated hard stops without giving the system a chance to cool... which might be what you are thinking of.... but the car will still never stop shorter than it did the first time on stock brakes.... and the need for resisting brake fade we're talking about is mainly a race track thing and doesn't really exist in normal street driving unless you're involved in the chase scene from a Jason Bourne movie... (especially on a car with regen braking)
     
  11. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    I don't want to get into an argument on this - see your 'if both can engage ABS' bit..

    No I am not confused.. You're being too literal, if I am going to be in conditions where I will otherwise overheat my brakes (mountain driving, track time fun) then bigger brakes can very well stop my car faster than my otherwise overheating brakes..

    We are in the end not disagreeing (well I'm not :) ) about the physics of tires and friction etc but to be useful to folks asking questions, providing a bit more than a dismissive comment about tires not brakes stopping the car might be better appreciated.
     
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  12. GregD60

    GregD60 Member

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    I keep being tempted by the idea of running 19x9.5 wheels with Sport Cup 2 tires in size 265/35-19 all the way around. Warm the tires up and I think the stopping distances would be impressive. The efficiency would drop like a rock however. :)
     
  13. 1.21GW

    1.21GW Member

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    Wow, this went off topic quick... I shouldn’t have included the brake comment.

    Anyhow, the point of this thread was the acceleration numbers and comparable vehicles. The LR AWD is quite impressive, more than I expected. I am quite happy with the performance levels of my car
     
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  14. GregD60

    GregD60 Member

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    New cars in general have gotten to be pretty fast. There are dozens of cars that are similar speed to the Model 3 LR AWD, and quite a few that are significantly faster. For comparable, the Audi S4, BMW 340i, BMW 340ix, and Mercedes C43 jump immediately to mind.
     
  15. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Given there's folks who've gotten sub-4 seconds (barely) out of the AWD since the OTA power bump, and low 12s (12.3x)... I'm not sure there's THAT many that are significantly faster (certainly not for a similar price anyway)... nor many that run equal speeds around the same price...

    From your list-

    A 2018 S4 is 12.8 in the 1/4 for example, almost a full half second slower...the BMW 340xi (new one tested by carwow) put down a 12.6, which while comparable to the Mercedes C43 is still several tenths slower than the AWD...
     
  16. GregD60

    GregD60 Member

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    I bolded the key point above - price. When I said many cars are faster than a Model 3, I was not considering price.

    Even the direct competition like an S4, M340ix, and C43 are all more expensive than a LR AWD. As for 2 or 3 tenths of a second one way or the other, I consider that within the range of parity. It means that if the Tesla is a little low on charge, one of those other cars could take it. Of course, any little problem with those cars, and the Tesla takes them, and they're all a lot fussier to get their best times out of than a Model 3.

    The Corvette, Camaro, and Mustang that you mentioned in your first post may be about the same as the LR AWD in the 1/4, but all three of them will start pulling away from the Tesla at longer distances.
     
  17. timk225

    timk225 Active Member

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    What are some real AWD times and speeds for the 1/4?
     
  18. Zextraterrestrial

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    P85 & it stops in <100. Ft on my tires
     
  19. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    12.31 is the quickest I've seen posted at a 1/4 mile track since the power-boost OTA update, was in the 114-115 trap range IIRC, and at least 1 other guy got a similar time with a draggy in the 1/4 mile after the power bump.

    Likewise I think at least 2 guys have posted sub-4 second 0-60s (though just barely, and with 1' rollout) since the update.
     
  20. timk225

    timk225 Active Member

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    I wouldn't expect to see a non performance AWD running 114 in the quarter, that's the P3D power level. I'd think an AWD would be around 108-109 mph.
     

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