I'm coming from BMW and have always appreciated good handling and chassis design. If LR-AWD has a standard suspension and Performance has a sport suspension, am I likely to be disappointed with the base suspension? Power and acceleration for both cars is more than adequate, so extra speed is of little value.
LR-AWD or Performance
- Thread starter Robert A
- Start date
lUtriaNt
Member
If you don’t care for the speed differential, get the LR and spend the money on FSD and rims. Otherwise get the performance. Better than to get LR and wish you had performance later.
If you go non-P without driving the P, in the back of your mind you will always question if you made the right choice (i know because that is what I did). So assuming that the Performance car is an option budget wise, I think you should either:
1 - Buy the performance, or
2 - Test drive both cars, and only buy the performance if you think that the difference is worth the cost.
1 - Buy the performance, or
2 - Test drive both cars, and only buy the performance if you think that the difference is worth the cost.
Again, can you share some specifics about handling and chassis differences - your subjective experiences? I'm not concerned about power and acceleration.
Ill make it simple. Can you afford a Performance comfortably? If yes, buy it and don't look back. There is nothing worse than settling for something and then saying i "should have". Coming from a GTR - the Performance 3 is such a thrill to drive.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The P drops the car a massive... 0.39 inches.
That's it.
No magnetorheological dampers, no adaptive suspension, no air ride, none of it....
Plus it comes with the boat anchor pot-hole-magnet heavy 20" rims too.
If you're all about high end chassis stuff in normal street use- get the LR AWD and put some of the $8000 you save toward aftermarket suspension parts like from MPP for example-
Suspension Archives | Mountain Pass Performance
And even though you don't care about 0-60 acceleration it'll still be quicker than most BMWs... or with the 2k Boost it'll be quicker than anything BMW currently makes/sells that doesn't say "M5" on it.
Now, if you plan to race the car on a (non drag) track- that's a different story... because you're really going to want track mode and that remains a P exclusive.... just plan to sell the 20s and get some light, forged, 18s instead.
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OP, i'd say listen to his and knightshade's advice based on your criteria. At the very least, test drive the performance model 3 so you know how it drives, and then you'll be able to determine if its worth the cost difference.
Every thread you post this info makes me inch closer and closer to getting the accel boost...
AhwatukeeDad
Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Boosted AWD at 3.5 (1' rollout) is quicker than M3 or M4... (even unboosted at 3.9 1' rollout) is same as M3, and .1 slower than M4)
M5 is a totally different beast though- depending whose testing you believe not even the P will beat it 0-60 (I've seen mag tests of 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, and 3.1 for the M5- vs ~3 flat for the P3)
Needsdecaf
Member
I had a LRAWD with 19's for a little over a year and 36k miles. Then it died <<RIP>> and I ordered a Performance to take it's place. I've only got 90 miles on the Performance due to the lockdown and having it shipped out for tint and PPF, but here are my impressions.
Both suspensions are bouncy. You can see this in multiple videos. The car has a "head bobbing" motion that's almost like an old air cooled Porsche. The Performance reduces this maybe 10%. To get rid of this, you need aftermarket coilovers.
I feel like the Performance rides with less "edge". Again, surprising given shorter springs, heavier wheels, and smaller sidewalls. But perhaps that's the PS4S's. It's definitely less jarring over potholes, expansion joints, etc. Then again it could be due to the fact that my car is a 2020 vs. my 18 month older car, but I do remember when I test drove a Performance twice when I ended up buying my first car, that I seem to remember the same thing.
Both handle mostly the same. Again, I've only got 90 miles on the Performance so I could revisit this in the future.
Brakes are one reason I got the P. The LRAWD brakes aren't good. Yes, you don't use them like 95% of the time. But when you DO use them, it's because you need them. I never trusted the LRAWD brakes. In my short tests, the P brakes are definitely better.
Finally, I'm not in a position to mod the cars. My wife simply won't tolerate more than the token tint / PPF type mods. I may end up doing it anyway in the future but for now, not going to rock the boat. Plus, I have a 911 for the weekends anyway.
If you're not in a position to mod, becuase of lack of cash flow, lack of approving spouse, or inability to deal with the car out of commission a few days at a time, I'd say get the Performance.
If you can do the above, I say get the LRAWD, then spend the rest of the money on a big brake kit, some better wheels, and a set of MPP Sport or Redwood / Ohlins Coilovers. Sure, that will be a bit more than the price of a performance after you factor in labor, but not all that much more. And you will have MUCH more car. If the speed bothers you, there's always the $2k option to boost acceleration.
Both suspensions are bouncy. You can see this in multiple videos. The car has a "head bobbing" motion that's almost like an old air cooled Porsche. The Performance reduces this maybe 10%. To get rid of this, you need aftermarket coilovers.
I feel like the Performance rides with less "edge". Again, surprising given shorter springs, heavier wheels, and smaller sidewalls. But perhaps that's the PS4S's. It's definitely less jarring over potholes, expansion joints, etc. Then again it could be due to the fact that my car is a 2020 vs. my 18 month older car, but I do remember when I test drove a Performance twice when I ended up buying my first car, that I seem to remember the same thing.
Both handle mostly the same. Again, I've only got 90 miles on the Performance so I could revisit this in the future.
Brakes are one reason I got the P. The LRAWD brakes aren't good. Yes, you don't use them like 95% of the time. But when you DO use them, it's because you need them. I never trusted the LRAWD brakes. In my short tests, the P brakes are definitely better.
Finally, I'm not in a position to mod the cars. My wife simply won't tolerate more than the token tint / PPF type mods. I may end up doing it anyway in the future but for now, not going to rock the boat. Plus, I have a 911 for the weekends anyway.
If you're not in a position to mod, becuase of lack of cash flow, lack of approving spouse, or inability to deal with the car out of commission a few days at a time, I'd say get the Performance.
If you can do the above, I say get the LRAWD, then spend the rest of the money on a big brake kit, some better wheels, and a set of MPP Sport or Redwood / Ohlins Coilovers. Sure, that will be a bit more than the price of a performance after you factor in labor, but not all that much more. And you will have MUCH more car. If the speed bothers you, there's always the $2k option to boost acceleration.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
In street use- they really aren't. They can certainly FEEL different, but both stop the car in exactly the same distance on the same tires... because physics.
The tires stop the car, not the brakes.
This is another case where you're attributing an improvement that's the direct result of having better tires on it to something other than tires.
Now if you're taking it on a track and repeatedly braking from 100+ mph without letting things cool off? The P brakes will take longer to fade... but that's a really tiny % of owners who are gonna do that... (of virtually any car)
Needsdecaf
Member
I'm aware of that. And I'm aware of how much of a difference tires make. And I stand behind what I said. They are not good. They FEEL terrible. They do not inspire confidence, they do not have a consistent or good feel. I'm not talking about stopping distances with max deceleration, where tires ARE the limiting factor.
also, what do you mean "another case" of attributing an improvement.....???
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Actually need to apologize for my poor wording (or perhaps poor reading) on that as on looking again you seem to fairly consider the suspension difference you note COULD be the tires instead.
Needsdecaf
Member
Well, it's odd. Considering shorter springs and lower profile tires should make the ride worse, not better. And the tires are a Summer Performance, not an all season. So they should have a much stiffer sidewall, both from height and construction. All of those things add up to a situation where it should ride stiffer. But somehow it's not. Perhaps the shocks are different for the performance? I've never heard they were.
AhwatukeeDad
Member
I know. I was just trying to simplify it. There really aren’t that many people that know what a BMW M is or drive one. But BMW has sold lots of cars...
in reality, the power of my wife’s LR RWD is way more in feel than almost all the BMWs being driven today. AWD is a step up and the P is just the fastest roller coaster.
YMMV
I agree 100% Maybe it's because I came from a Camaro SS, but I don't like the brake feel.That's the only negative I have. The car a blast otherwise, I love it. The tires will be my first upgrade.
dmurphy
Woof.
I drive an LR AWD. If I had to buy the car over again... I’d get the same damn thing.
The P has “violent” acceleration, sure. But that’s just a parlor trick for me. I don’t race, I don’t take it to the track, I don’t do meets. It’s a complete waste of money for me.
I spent the extra bucks on the FSD package since the tech features are something I use ... an extra half second 0-60? Nope. Doesn’t mean squat to me. But that’s the beauty of this thing. We can each do our own thing, and it’s awesome.
if there’s 500 owners, there’s 4,000 use cases!
The P has “violent” acceleration, sure. But that’s just a parlor trick for me. I don’t race, I don’t take it to the track, I don’t do meets. It’s a complete waste of money for me.
I spent the extra bucks on the FSD package since the tech features are something I use ... an extra half second 0-60? Nope. Doesn’t mean squat to me. But that’s the beauty of this thing. We can each do our own thing, and it’s awesome.
if there’s 500 owners, there’s 4,000 use cases!
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