LR picked up on Thursday and shocking mileage per charge

[davidmc]

One thing that's not mentioned above could be a combination of the following:

1. How short are your "short" trips?
2. How long do you take from opening the door/s on the car to driving off?
3. How long are you sitting in the car for, when you arrive at the destination?
4. Is the car cold when you first get into it, and is the climate on Auto or a selected temp & fan speed?
5. The car is still awake when you park and leave it for a while (think its around 15-30mins) - this also consumes energy

People forget that the car is always ON when you are sitting in the car and playing with your apps & gadgets! The heating consumes a lot to keep your hands and butt warm.

A small 1mile journey could look like this - 3mins to buckle up and select you music, 3-4mins driving, 3mins getting out and remembering your mask.

This can consume a lot of energy. So a 1mile journey suddenly becomes 3-4miles consumed in energy.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Short trips are bad.
Motorway trips are bad unless you're prepared to do 56mph.
Hills are bad.
The wet is bad.
The cold is bad.

They work very well in California, apparently.

All of these things are true in an ICE as well. It's just basic physics.

But we're not in a forum where people are worried about low mpg on short journeys, so that's not the question we're answering.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

50 miles using 50% is something like 700wh/m which is way too high for normal use, even on a bad day at the start of a journey I’m not above 500 . I suspect there’s additional info we don’t know, sentry mode, sitting in the car showing people the controls/screens, playing games, not letting it sleep.

It’s worth a reboot in case it’s not sleeping but as the energy can’t just disappear it’s a matter of working out where and when it’s going. The energy chart graph will potentially help with that.

 

[Overworked]

Got my LR at end of Sept. The runs from then to about mid-Nov have been mainly long runs and the overall average is about 266 whr/mile (about 4miles per KWh). Right swipe below the car image and keep scrolling it up and it will show your averages. I was working on about 10% battery loss giving me 30 miles.

Since then it has been noticeably colder in my part of Scotland and it has now dropped to an average of about 350 whr/mile ( just under 3 mile per Kwh) as there has been some defrosting etc and shorter journeys where the use per journey has gone up to 600 or so! One longer journey from Yorkshire back home when it was showing 0C or 1C the energy graph for the first time was showing worse performance than estimated by 1 or 2 %. That is as I expected having read/seen the winter performance drop.

You will get much worse figures when doing short and often trips as pointed out above as you get the heat up to temperature each time then allow it to cool to ambient (ie freezing!) again and repeat.

I have not yet got the experience to work out the winter averages, but now am guessing that my 10% power loss will give me about 20 miles when very cold.

 

[Stranger Dings]

50 miles using 50% is something like 700wh/m which is way too high for normal use, even on a bad day at the start of a journey I’m not above 500.

In my M3P in winter, a four mile journey can easily be well over 500.

If the OP isn’t able to use home charging, they will be running totally from cold and I wouldn’t be surprised with his stated figures.

 

[plisken]

Below is what I've got;

Firstly, from my last charge, 30% to 80% and a 15 mile trip home with one short stop at the shop for cans of beer, which were quite nice by the way.

This is as you can see, since forever (6 miles when I picked up) and includes the aforementioned 30% to 80% charges(x2), currently sitting at 68% battery.

Do these above figures also include stationary usage or just moving usage?

 

[Lord Farquad]

Just moving. They look reasonable to me. So your issue appears to be when the cars not driving. Pre heating? Sentry? Not sleeping?

 

[plisken]

Just moving. They look reasonable to me. So your issue appears to be when the cars not driving. Pre heating? Sentry? Not sleeping?

It's not dropping overnight so guess that rules out not sleeping and Sentry is off and no Pre Heating.

If the figures are reasonable, doesn't that also indicate that there isn't too much waste energy heating the battery etc?

 

[init6]

334Wh/mi is fairly typical for this time of year and for short journeys. Coming back from town, a 4 mile journey, I got 373 @ 4C, mostly uphill, so your's sounds ok. Looks like you are losing battery when not driving. Are you sure sentry is off?
Try this:

It’s worth a reboot in case it’s not sleeping but as the energy can’t just disappear it’s a matter of working out where and when it’s going. The energy chart graph will potentially help with that.

 

[init6]

It's not dropping overnight so guess that rules out not sleeping and Sentry is off and no Pre Heating.

If the figures are reasonable, doesn't that also indicate that there isn't too much waste energy heating the battery etc?

No, you could have sentry excluded from home, but have it on everywhere else. Try a reboot first.
Edit: and check your sentry settings.

 

[plisken]

334Wh/mi is fairly typical for this time of year and for short journeys. Coming back from town, a 4 mile journey, I got 373 @ 4C, mostly uphill, so your's sounds ok. Looks like you are losing battery when not driving. Are you sure sentry is off?
Try this:

Definitely off, only put it on for 10 minutes over weekend to try it out, only other thing I switched on was the dash cam, set to Auto.

It's pretty much showing the same in the morning as it did from the night before, in terms of battery percentage, so I did think it was just VERY poor economy (if we can use such a phrase).

I'll try a reboot regardless...

So the trip and energy graph only show usage when moving, any usage sitting watching Netflix with the heating on (not that I've done that), won't be recorded in either the Trip or Energy graph?

 

[Jason71]

Below is what I've got;

Firstly, from my last charge, 30% to 80% and a 15 mile trip home with one short stop at the shop for cans of beer, which were quite nice by the way.

View attachment 743756

This is as you can see, since forever (6 miles when I picked up) and includes the aforementioned 30% to 80% charges(x2), currently sitting at 68% battery.

View attachment 743757

Do these above figures also include stationary usage or just moving usage?

those figures are just what it uses when the car is moving. your Trip B is not abnormal for a series of short journeys carried out in winter and Trip A is pretty good for this time of year on a 15mile journey.
So what are you losing between journeys? this is not easy to check this time of year unfortunately. If you get out of the car and then later come back to it when the battery has cooled it will appear to have lost some charge at this time of year but it is an illusion to some degree. when it warms up you will get that back but if the warming is due to driving not weather you will not realise. if you check it on a cold morning don't drive it then check it a midday when it has warmed up you can see it go up by several %.

 

[Jason71]

So the trip and energy graph only show usage when moving, any usage sitting watching Netflix with the heating on (not that I've done that), won't be recorded in either the Trip or Energy graph?

correct

 

[Jason71]

I have a 2019 LR without the heat pump and I can save quite a bit but turning the heater fan speed down to 1-2 (heat on 19-20) and whacking the heated seats on high. I only ever bother in winter on a long journey when range might be an issue. Since I have home charging it does not matter day to day. But it does make a difference and comfort wise, personally I find it fine. Whether it makes as much difference with the heat pump cars I assume not but might be some

 

[Adopado]

Below is what I've got;

Firstly, from my last charge, 30% to 80% and a 15 mile trip home with one short stop at the shop for cans of beer, which were quite nice by the way.

View attachment 743756

This is as you can see, since forever (6 miles when I picked up) and includes the aforementioned 30% to 80% charges(x2), currently sitting at 68% battery.

View attachment 743757

Do these above figures also include stationary usage or just moving usage?

If you are able to plug in at home regularly and you have more than enough range on a daily basis I suggest that you try to ignore it for a while. (If you are genuinely unable to keep up with charging enough for your daily needs then that's a different story.) After a few weeks come back to it and do some further analysis (but meantime try not to be drawn into it otherwise it will take over your every waking thought!).

My own suspicion is that your usage is just the result of multiple short journeys for the reasons already described by others. It is not representative of consumption on longer trips so hopefully will not be such an issue. Last winter our car was only being used for some essential neighbour support and was typically being driven up hills for 1 mile ... cooled down (2hrs) .... 1 mile ... cooled down ... 1.5 miles ... cooled down ... 1.5 miles ... cold night etc etc ... then once a week a 50 miles return trip. The difference was stark! The days of mega short drives with relatively long stops could be about 425Wh/Mile with additional battery losses yet the longer trip was generally between 250/280 Wh/mile (no heat pump). It then dawned on me that the short drive "problem" wasn't really an issue because the car was doing less than 10 miles on any one day so though the consumption rate was much higher it never used up enough of the battery to leave me anywhere near short ... I plugged it in at night, only charging above 80% on special occasions, and it was always ready to go in the morning.

 

[init6]

Are you checking the app when you're not in the car? Using the app wakes the car up. Worth also restarting the app to see if that has hung up or something.

Next time you are out for a drive, take a note of the battery percentage immediately before and after the drive, to see if there is any unexpected loss there.

 

[Mrklaw]

Short range can be brutal on mileage in winter.. cabin heating, battery heating... worse if you're in a hilly area.

But those esimates seem low even for that.

I'd quite like a button that says 'I'm pootling to the shops, don't bother with the battery I'll have parked by the time it warms up'

 

[UkNorthampton]

correct

It seems to be related to the energy needed to heat the battery/cabin.

If driving economy is ok, OP @plisken can disregard brakes sticking. Agree with others that your driving wh/mile figures look fine. Also agree that when being economical, use heated seats rather than cabin on auto. Manual cabin temp/fan/screen heat/feet priority can be fine tuned.

Same goes for summer, manual HVAC control can make a difference - useful for me for summer beach trips, being tiny bit more economical leaves 30% left on a 4.5 hour, 220 mile round trip (M3LR, no heat pump), some auto air-con & some manual fan to max - from memory. That's when very hot & lots of traffic. That's equivalent to 314 miles on a charge. I think my longest trip in UK on one charge was something like 5.5 hours along coastal roads with plenty of aircon, stops and town driving. Slow roads & consequent low air resistance.

I still remember a lowish state of charge while in the Alps descending. Car was new and I was surprised the routeplanner was suggesting I still had 5.5 hours to next Supercharger (could even have skipped & gone to next), then I realised most of route was downhill.

According to wikipedia, LR battery pack is 480 kg. That is a LOT of mass to warm up, and consequent use of energy. (Tesla Model 3 - Wikipedia.) If it was water (it's not, it's a mix of metals, electrolyte & magic), it would take 7.82 kWh to heat water from 6-20 Celsius. I used water as it's easy to find a water/heat/energy calculator and would be a worse case. Metals would be a lot quicker to heat than water.

Specific Heat Capacity of Tesla battery for some guesses etc
"From recollection it took 3kwh to heat from -20C to 25C or so"

Water Heating Calculator

Use the water heating calculator to determine how much time and energy you'll need to increase the temperature of the water.

www.omnicalculator.com

 

[jjrandorin]

I picked the car up on The last week and I've covered about 98 miles. There were 6 miles on the clock when I picked it up and 41% battery. I brought the car home, went for lunch and charged it from 30% to 80%. Over Friday and Saturday (Saturday was a bit colder, probably below 6degC but rest of the time, it's been higher than that), I had some errands to do, which brought the car to around 30% again with something like 58 miles covered in total and yesterday, has some similar trips to make and found it again, rather quickly dropped to around 30% with only 86 miles in total being covered. I again charged to 80% which if I recall correctly shows 270 range. I checked the car this morning and it's down to 68% and covered the grand total of 98 miles since leaving China.

Now, I haven't been planting the throttle, at all. I've had two short trips on the motorway, both times sitting at around 56mph and I even found myself Turing the climate off yesterday such was my concern. I haven't been checking the app and sentry mode is off, apart from putting it on for 10 minutes to try it over the weekend.

Surely it can't be that bad?

I know my initial expectations were to charge every "couple" of weeks and that was quickly dashed by some on here (rightly so), but this cant be all I'm to expect, is it?

Perhaps I should read the entire thread first, but I dont understand in the slightest why this is shocking. It was explained, in detail, in the thread you asked about previously.

In fact, I remember clearly suggesting that, based on your original expectation of a "no fuss" experience, and the fact that you were not going to be able to put in home charging, that you might want to re evaluate taking delivery.

Does the model 3 need to be fettled to be a daily driver?

What I mean is, does it need to be tweaked and tinkered with frequently, be it through reboots, body lubrication or whatever? I'm not meaning in the way an older, come classic car does but just generally, can I expect to charge it every couple of weeks (depending on mileage) and top up washer...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Dilly]

What do you mean "car says you've used 227 miles"?

the 89 actual miles of short journeys I did used 227 miles out my battery range
the last 5 short journeys over two days when it was down to 0 degrees, were two lots of 2 miles, one of 4 miles, one of 6 miles and one of 7 miles. Total 25 miles, but used 86 miles of battery.
heater/aircon on before I left each time