LR premium, long term value

[ℬête Noire]

You've obviously not driven such a car
Having been hobbled with the limited range of a Leaf for 3.5 years and waiting for a Model 3, there is no way I'm getting the SR.
Anyone who says all they need is <100 range has two or three cars or a free unlimited Uber account

The SR will have a >100mi range. With moderately considerate driving (and after-market window tinting for your climate, I expect) it should have a longterm ongoing functional range of at least 130mi, near nominal for isolated uses. 60% of an honest nominal for warm climate, somewhere around 45% of nominal for cold climate seems seems to be about the right rule-of-thumb numbers on this to make sure you aren't prematurely aging your battery. So the M3 SR for cold climate should be about 100mi and change for the winter.

Of course you apply this number to your own situation to judge this.

Case study so far:

I've had my Bolt nearly 2 months now, nominal range similar to the M3 SR. Though I've yet to deal with the brunt of Summer (or the season of OMGOMGWhyDidIMoveToTX that follows that in July and August), this week was the first time I felt I might need to colour my plans in any way because of the Bolt's range. I had to pick up my kid from A&M, return to local family Dr, then return the kid to A&M. Nearly all of this is highway, about a 1/3 w/70mph speed limit, another 1/3 with 75mph. Due to scheduling I need to stick to those speeds (allegedly +10% ). The Bolt guzzles electrons at those speeds. It was also just above freezing, so conditioning and cabin heat overhead.

So although at the edge of nominal distance, the upshot is I wouldn't be able to make more than 3 legs to completion w/o charging. I would either need to pop into home (for at least a few hours) or have an extended stay at A&M, effectively overnight (they have a "free" L2 charger in a parking garage, $1/hr at night). It turned out we decided to have a family dinner so the kid was staying overnight anyway. Still I consider this to have been a "range incident" because I had to consider it in my planning. Yet it had been 2 months without one prior, and I'm pretty remote. I live in "the woods".

Now mix in a Supercharge option (I don't have DC Fast), and lower range impact from high speed on the Model 3 and it wouldn't have been one. I'll see how the Summer and beyond plays out but it's shaping up as pretty reliable solution for home area transport.

P.S. I'm still getting an LR though, because I feel there is room in my budget for it and I intend to use it for true touring trips. I'll make sure to wave to you on my way by to Fredericksburg.

 

[206er]

My opinion after spending a few hours in a PUP LR 3 - the LR battery will probably hold up, but the PUP interior feels kind of cheap and needs to be addressed. Other than the glass roof I'd say that it's not worth the $5k upgrade, but I'm concerned about how much worse the base interior will be.

My apples-apples comparison with other cars in the 3's class is that the PUP interior is not on par with premium offerings on an A4, 330i, V60, IS, or ILX/TLX. I don't even know if it's as "nice" as a modern base Acura's.

 

[commasign]

You've obviously not driven such a car
Having been hobbled with the limited range of a Leaf for 3.5 years and waiting for a Model 3, there is no way I'm getting the SR.
Anyone who says all they need is <100 range has two or three cars or a free unlimited Uber account

It really depends where you live, what your commute is like, and how often you road trip. 5 mile commute, 20 mile commute, 100 mile commute? I know a lot of people in the Sacramento area who are doing just fine with the Leaf, Fiat, etc.,. Before getting Teslas, we drove a ~100 mile range Toyota RAV4 EV and a ~70 mile range Honda Fit EV. Yes, we took our gas minivan for trips to the Bay Area, but for anything within the greater Sacramento area, a short-range EV was fine. Also, keep in mind there are a lot of owners of Model S 60 (208 mile range) and Model X 60D (200 mile range) out there. They have to supercharge more frequently on road trips, but they're still driving Teslas!

 

[jsmay311]

Price ≠ Cost

 

[insaneoctane]

I'm a little uneasy with how the math is the initial post is working, how the comparisons are being made, and the conclusions drawn after lumping in the whole vehicle price when doing the per kWh average.

I'm going to mull it over a little more before posting full thoughts on it but as a starting point to help others consider it here is some data, historical and projected Li battery pack prices.

That suggest that $360/kWh includes pretty good margin for Tesla but may not be the full picture. Is it known if the LR pack is simply 40% larger in size or is it roughly the same space with tighter packing/higher density (that could be more expensive per kWh to build)?

Yeah, I really skipped explaining a lot of big assumptions in my math for simplicity. Obviously, you should not include the vehicle in your $/kWh calculations, but without better data it can be used to predict limiting numbers if you assume Tesla isn't selling anything at a loss....

 

[Pkmmte]

My opinion after spending a few hours in a PUP LR 3 - the LR battery will probably hold up, but the PUP interior feels kind of cheap and needs to be addressed. Other than the glass roof I'd say that it's not worth the $5k upgrade, but I'm concerned about how much worse the base interior will be.

My apples-apples comparison with other cars in the 3's class is that the PUP interior is not on par with premium offerings on an A4, 330i, V60, IS, or ILX/TLX. I don't even know if it's as "nice" as a modern base Acura's.

Other than the cloth headliner, what exactly feels cheap about it? I think it actually looks really nice and luxurious. The glass roof, heated seats, premium audio, and seat materials easily make it worth $5k to me.

 

[kwest2]

From pictures, the rear vents and rear seat cupholders look really cheap (My '08 Jetta's rear seat cupholders are far, far nicer...). I haven't been in one yet though.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Other than the cloth headliner, what exactly feels cheap about it? I think it actually looks really nice and luxurious. The glass roof, heated seats, premium audio, and seat materials easily make it worth $5k to me.

That's the other side of the LR PUP, I had been more focused on the battery because that's more objective. Even when it's personal, because of your own range needs, it's a lot easier to measure.

The seats, roof, and audio are deeper into subjective value territory...and I'm locked in there. I expect I'd never get the spouse to sign off on anything that wasn't top trim audio. Also why I expect my opinion will end up moot with regards to the package including TACC.

 

[206er]

Other than the cloth headliner, what exactly feels cheap about it? I think it actually looks really nice and luxurious. The glass roof, heated seats, premium audio, and seat materials easily make it worth $5k to me.

I do not like the fake plastic wood (felt and looked like cheap plastic in-person to me; I'd definitely wrap it with something nicer), the glossy plastic center console surfaces (would wrap it), the carpeting & floor mats (looked like it they were slightly fraying around some edges, maybe a one-off issue?), faux leather seats (material didn't seem as nice as what's found in Ss and Xs to me), plastic on the rear vents & center seat cup holders was meh. The sound system was fine, but I wasn't wowed by it.

I'd say the interior is on par with a high-end Civic - which isn't bad - just kind of raw and not luxurious or something I'd objectively rate as competitive with other cars in it's class.

So pretty much the only thing I liked about the PUP interior was the glass roof...

The car did not feel like a $50k car to me, but plenty of people here will like it I'm sure. I will admit that I started out that day way more excited and enthusiastic about the Model 3 than I ended it after spending a few hours with the car. In fact, getting to experience it was the 2nd biggest factor in me deciding to cancel after last week's delay for SR and AWD.

 

[206er]

I'd also like to add that I prefer the cloth headliner to the alcantara, but you don't even notice the headliner with the amazing glass roof right above you.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I'd also like to add that I prefer the cloth headliner to the alcantara, but you don't even notice the headliner with the amazing glass roof right above you.

I was reasonably impressed with the sense of openness with the glass when I sat in it and I wasn't even outdoors yet.

 

[206er]

I was reasonably impressed with the sense of openness with the glass when I sat in it and I wasn't even outdoors yet.

EV-ness and sexy exterior styling aside - the glass roof is definitely the best thing about this car.

 

[R.S]

My opinion after spending a few hours in a PUP LR 3 - the LR battery will probably hold up, but the PUP interior feels kind of cheap and needs to be addressed. Other than the glass roof I'd say that it's not worth the $5k upgrade, but I'm concerned about how much worse the base interior will be.

My apples-apples comparison with other cars in the 3's class is that the PUP interior is not on par with premium offerings on an A4, 330i, V60, IS, or ILX/TLX. I don't even know if it's as "nice" as a modern base Acura's.

Yea I'm thinking the same, you forgot the premium audio though. I guess that's very important for some folks, but to me the it all comes down to:

-How much worse will non PUP look?
-Will it have heated seats?

I don't really need a glass roof and the interior doesn't really look too premium to me. If it just adds fake leather, that glossy console lid and the veneer on the dash, then I'm not getting it.

If it includes heated seats, then it's a must have...

 

[Big Dog]

Tesla now since they will definitely have larger batteries in the near future

of course they will, just as AAPL has a phone upgrade every 6 months. Technology just keeps improving.

 

[Twiglett]

Yes, we took our gas minivan for trips to the Bay Area

That's what I mean - SR is fine if you are a two or three car family.
Without your minivan you would need the LR.
Personally I've been EV for 3-4 years and don't intend to go back to exploding dinosaurs, therefore LR is a must

 

[turtlesz]

My opinion after spending a few hours in a PUP LR 3 - the LR battery will probably hold up, but the PUP interior feels kind of cheap and needs to be addressed. Other than the glass roof I'd say that it's not worth the $5k upgrade, but I'm concerned about how much worse the base interior will be.

My apples-apples comparison with other cars in the 3's class is that the PUP interior is not on par with premium offerings on an A4, 330i, V60, IS, or ILX/TLX. I don't even know if it's as "nice" as a modern base Acura's.

I own a 435i and ordered a Model X 3 weeks ago and a 3 reservation holder. I think the PUP on the 3 is necessary to compete in the luxury segment. Sound, glass, heated seats, non textile seats along with power seats seems like a fair price for the upgrades. Power seats is the biggest for me as I will be switching cars with my wife and would hate to keep adjusting seats. I have found the model 3 interior to be pretty nice and futuristic compared to other cars I have had experience with.