EV-lutioin
Active Member
I suppose EPA is complicit in this as well, though way better than EU ratings.
LR True Range -- Part II, Early Evidence
- Thread starter ForeverFree
- Start date
smartypnz
Supporting Member
Did a fun trip (my first significant) today. Went from the Monterey Peninsula to Kettlemen City via 101 S to past King City, then East on Hwy 198 (a fun segment thru the mountains in the M3) then South to Kettlemen City Supercharger.
Did not baby it but rarely exceeded the limit when on the Hwy 101, but on 198 ignored the suggested curve speed warnings.
Surprised that my Wh/mi was 236 for the 157 mile trip. Start capacity RM was 248 miles finished at 101 miles. which means I used 10 miles less RM than predicted.
At Kettlemen City started charging at 96kW rate of 324 mi/hr. ONLY CAR THERE!!!
FInished, but not full - no need, Left Kettlemen with 259 RM
Got Home via I5 North over Pacheco then south on 101 then over 156 and Hwy 1 to the Peninsula. Not saying I exceeded speed on I 5 but kept with the flow of traffic (flow was avg between 80 - 90 mph).
Still my Wh/mile for that segment was 239 - remarkable. But RM said 183 used but odometer 178 miles.
Did not baby it but rarely exceeded the limit when on the Hwy 101, but on 198 ignored the suggested curve speed warnings.
Surprised that my Wh/mi was 236 for the 157 mile trip. Start capacity RM was 248 miles finished at 101 miles. which means I used 10 miles less RM than predicted.
At Kettlemen City started charging at 96kW rate of 324 mi/hr. ONLY CAR THERE!!!
Got Home via I5 North over Pacheco then south on 101 then over 156 and Hwy 1 to the Peninsula. Not saying I exceeded speed on I 5 but kept with the flow of traffic (flow was avg between 80 - 90 mph).
Still my Wh/mile for that segment was 239 - remarkable. But RM said 183 used but odometer 178 miles.
smartypnz
Supporting Member
Pretty lonely at Kettlemen - just me... and the barista.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
smartypnz
Supporting Member
Nothing noticeable. The few times I stopped and got out - no wind. While driving noticed no side winds although thru the hills I turned many different directions. Tumbleweeds I passed were passively lying along the road.
Basically south down there and north back up here - and a short time between - no weather fronts.
Just sitting there on Cruise Control watching the Wh/mile slowly decrease. Even the spirited ride thru the mountains (no cruise control - many slowdown and speed ups) caused very little increase of the Wh/mile reading
T34ME
Active Member
Can one of you injuneers out there show me the math to translate 225 Wh/mi into range for a given size battery pack (assuming flat, mill pond conditions)? Thank you.
(EDIT) Just found the formula, I think:
1000 / watt hours per mile (225 in this example) = miles per KwH
Battery pack size (in KwH) x miles per KwH = theoretical range
(EDIT) Just found the formula, I think:
1000 / watt hours per mile (225 in this example) = miles per KwH
Battery pack size (in KwH) x miles per KwH = theoretical range
Last edited:
ElecFan
Member
EV-lutioin
Active Member
75,000 Watts (75kW battery pack) divided by Wh/mile.
75K/225= 333 miles range
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
Except 75kWh (notice units, kW is measure of power, kWh is measure of capacity) is not usable. I'm sure it was posted somewhere, but believe it was like 72.6kWh usable.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
It turns out that it's actually 80.5 kWh according to EPA documents.
Tesla Model 3 has an 80.5 kWh battery and 258HP according to EPA document
ElecFan
Member
insaneoctane
Active Member
That's not the usable battery size though...
The article you linked says
"The EPA Certification Summary report points to an “END-SOC” or state of charge level of 78270 watt-hours or 78.2 kWh of useable battery capacity."
Polly Wog
Member
We need a brave soul out there who has taken delivery of their Model 3, and who has time on their hands, to do a 100% charge. They then need to run the battery down to as close to zero as possible - while not using any HVAC or stopping 
, and then take and post a picture of the actual energy used. That's not asking too much, is it?
, and then take and post a picture of the actual energy used. That's not asking too much, is it? 
Reciprocity
Active Member
We need a brave soul out there who has taken delivery of their Model 3, and who has time on their hands, to do a 100% charge. They then need to run the battery down to as close to zero as possible - while not using any HVAC or stopping
Isnt that what the EPA already did to establish the 347ish miles of range? My guess is that Tesla wants to have a 30 mile reserve tank below the 0 miles of range to both allow people that are not used to EVs some slack and protect the battery for longer life.
Polly Wog
Member
Regarding the EPA testing, they don't test in the outside, real world. They test on a machine and then add fudge factors. Still, I think a lot of us want to see real, owner-attained numbers. Also, I don't believe Tesla added any reserve to protect new EV drivers. I think, as several others do, that Tesla didn't want to advertise that the Model 3 LR had range comparable to a Model S 100D so as not to contribute to cannibalization of Model S sales, and revised the EPA rated range down to accomplish that. Lastly, I don't believe that there is any "reserve" when the battery is "empty", I think they just adjusted the wh/mi constant accordingly. Of course, these are my opinions - who knows what the actual "truth" is?
Reciprocity
Active Member
There is a reserve on S/X today. You can go 10 Miles when the range says 0. All I'm saying is that they are doing the same thing only more because they model 3 is more of a mass market car and people won't spend hours on a message board learning every detail about how the battery works in an electric car. Most won't read the manual that comes with the car either, they will just assume there is a reserve. Because every car for decades can drive many miles on empty.
Big Earl
bnkwupt
I disagree. While some ICE cars can be driven significantly past zero miles remaining, others can’t. Some cars have a buffer to protect their fueling equipment (a good example of this is a new VW TDI that leaves one gallon of buffer in the tank because the high pressure fuel pump is cooled and lubricated by fuel - running too low will damage it).
New Teslas can often be driven past zero miles remaining. How far depends on the specific car. Aged Teslas sometimes cannot. Some 90 kWh owners have had their vehicles shut down with available miles still showing on the meter.
So my point is to be careful with generalizations. Newbies may take what you say and get themselves stuck.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Your talking about the past, I'm talking about the future. You named one ICE car that had some wired fuel pump. I referenced 30 years of common practice by drivers to drive 30 miles on E. So I disagree with you and your argument didn't sway me.
There would be nothing worse for Tesla then tons of photos of model 3s on flat beds because drivers pushed the limits. Not to mention the complaints after the first year and car losses 10 miles of range. Not everyone will educate themselves so Tesla has to protect them from themselves.
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