Lucid Air base price $52500

[TexasEV]

But just as it was silly for people to proclaim that the Air would start at over 100k it's also silly for people to proclaim that there will be no way to charge it. Let's wait for the official announcement and see. There's no rush, the cars won't come off the assembly line for a couple of years yet.

Yeah, we need to remember that at this stage of the Model S development no one knew how it could be charged for long distance driving either.

 

[teslasuperfan]

By the time Lucid's Air arrives there may not be a Federal EV tax credit anymore.

They have not even broken ground on their Arizona factory.

They have not sold out their 255 slots/reservations for Launch Edition Airs.

Stating a base price with base EPA range for some car that may be built at some point on an unspecified future date sounds vaporwary.

You sound like those guys who put Tesla on deathwatch back in 2008/2009.

 

[electracity]

The exact same thing was said about Tesla.

While execution is by no means guaranteed, I see no reason to be specifically skeptical about this company, they seem to have all their ducks in a row, and have every chance for success.

...........

Lucid is entering much later in the game. I'm not sure they have a realistic financial path to the economies of scale they will need to be competitive.

Like Tesla, they will need to spend billions ramping up production to eventually make money on a $60K vehicle.

Perhaps their real goal is to be purchased by an existing auto manufacturer.

 

[green1]

Lucid is entering much later in the game. I'm not sure they have a realistic financial path to the economies of scale they will need to be competitive.

Like Tesla, they will need to spend billions ramping up production to eventually make money on a $60K vehicle.

Perhaps their real goal is to be purchased by an existing auto manufacturer.

So far their path to success seems far more realistic than Tesla's was. Entering later in the game gives them a HUGE advantage over Tesla's early days.

Yes, they have to spend lots, but they also have investors lined up to throw money at them as long as they do things well, Tesla did not have that going for them, nor did Tesla have a public that was craving these vehicles.

Lucid may get purchased, but it seems unlikely, nor do I bet that this would be their goal.

 

[green1]

Stating a base price with base EPA range for some car that may be built at some point on an unspecified future date sounds vaporwary.

Then you agree that the Tesla model 3 is pure vapour ware? because Tesla's listed no more for that car than Lucid has for the air.

 

[RobStark]

You sound like those guys who put Tesla on deathwatch back in 2008/2009.

You sound like those guys that put Fisker in the DJIA back in 2012.

 

[malcolm]

Then you agree that the Tesla model 3 is pure vapour ware? because Tesla's listed no more for that car than Lucid has for the air.

Okay, now you're channelling Kellyanne Conway.

 

[green1]

Okay, now you're channelling Kellyanne Conway.

Look, I don't think the Model 3 is vapourware, but I'm just pointing out that if you call Lucid Air vapourware simply on the basis that all they've shown so far is an alpha version and haven't delivered a finished product yet, it would be pretty dishonest to give Tesla a pass for being at exactly the same stage with the Model 3.

There are many reasons this car may not make it to market, but calling it vapourware is a big stretch.

 

[disagree]

it would be pretty dishonest to give Tesla a pass for being at exactly the same stage with the Model 3.

You honestly can't think of any significant and relevant differences between Tesla and Lucid that relate to your analogy?

 

[green1]

You honestly can't think of any significant and relevant differences between Tesla and Lucid that relate to your analogy?

Well... Tesla has a long history of deceiving customers. Lucid so far does not.

Look, I agree that it may not make it to market, but that doesn't in itself make it "vapourware"

Vaporware isn't just something that hasn't been released yet, it's more than that, usually it's associated with things that were promised to appear and then get pushed back many many times before finally fading into obscurity. Or things that are obvious scams that everyone knows will never make it to market. Things where the promoter talks a lot, but produces little. That just doesn't describe the Air,

So far the Air has been going through what appears to be a normal development process, and there have, as of yet, been no indications that it won't make it.

I can't come up with any definition that would make the Air vapourware without also encompassing the 3.

 

[disagree]

Well... Tesla has a long history of deceiving customers. Lucid so far does not.

Look, I agree that it may not make it to market, but that doesn't in itself make it "vapourware"

Vaporware isn't just something that hasn't been released yet, it's more than that, usually it's associated with things that were promised to appear and then get pushed back many many times before finally fading into obscurity. Or things that are obvious scams that everyone knows will never make it to market. Things where the promoter talks a lot, but produces little. That just doesn't describe the Air,

So far the Air has been going through what appears to be a normal development process, and there have, as of yet, been no indications that it won't make it.

I can't come up with any definition that would make the Air vapourware without also encompassing the 3.

I agree with the deception claim. But....

... The supposed Tesla Model 3 is coming from a company that is presently making cars and has been for years now. That is a HUGE difference. I'm not claiming that the Air is vaporware, but I do think that the Model 3 production is not a very good analog for the Air's production. The hurdles and contexts are radically different.

 

[Mr X]

We'll believe it when we see it. Until then, Lucid Vapor Air.

 

[calisnow]

I give the Air 90% odds of making it to market because they seem to have done everything right to attract big investment capital. They have an impressive executive team. They aren't making wild crazy promises like Faraday Future. They aren't stuffing their car with random doodads - instead they've addressed the Model S's weak points (back seat room, road noise, general luxury feel) and they seem to know how to progress at a reasonable fashion. In other words they do not appear clueless about the market, insane in terms of what they believe they can build into a vehicle or psychologically dysfunctional - three attributes which would make it hard to get the money they need and which appear to be present at Faraday Future in spades.

Tesla is continuing to blow up and that alone will help attract capital. Right now, of the potentially competitive EV players Lucid Motors seems to be poised to make a competitive play if they can get the money. Put yourself in the shoes of a private equity group, hedge fund, or multibillionaire - imagine you want to invest in the EV space. Right now who has the best executive team, a designer with a strong track record and a prototype product that is both attractive, buildable and has a clear market niche not yet occupied by an established player?

Lucid. Only Lucid. We will see the Air come to market. Will we see the company succeed in the long run? I have no idea - too difficult to predict what happens 5 - 10 years out. But I think it's pretty safe to say Lucid will get the money it needs to bring the Air to market. And now that Intel has purchased Mobileye, we know Mobileye isn't going away any time soon - Mobileye is Lucid's autonomous driving partner, so it looks like they have the autonomy end covered reasonably well.

 

[green1]

We'll believe it when we see it. Until then, Lucid Vapor Air.

In that case, Tesla Vapor 3.

 

[teslasuperfan]

I give the Air 90% odds of making it to market because they seem to have done everything right to attract big investment capital. They have an impressive executive team. They aren't making wild crazy promises like Faraday Future. They aren't stuffing their car with random doodads - instead they've addressed the Model S's weak points (back seat room, road noise, general luxury feel) and they seem to know how to progress at a reasonable fashion. In other words they do not appear clueless about the market, insane in terms of what they believe they can build into a vehicle or psychologically dysfunctional - three attributes which would make it hard to get the money they need and which appear to be present at Faraday Future in spades.

Tesla is continuing to blow up and that alone will help attract capital. Right now, of the potentially competitive EV players Lucid Motors seems to be poised to make a competitive play if they can get the money. Put yourself in the shoes of a private equity group, hedge fund, or multibillionaire - imagine you want to invest in the EV space. Right now who has the best executive team, a designer with a strong track record and a prototype product that is both attractive, buildable and has a clear market niche not yet occupied by an established player?

Lucid. Only Lucid. We will see the Air come to market. Will we see the company succeed in the long run? I have no idea - too difficult to predict what happens 5 - 10 years out. But I think it's pretty safe to say Lucid will get the money it needs to bring the Air to market. And now that Intel has purchased Mobileye, we know Mobileye isn't going away any time soon - Mobileye is Lucid's autonomous driving partner, so it looks like they have the autonomy end covered reasonably well.

You sound a lot more reasonable than the hypocrite Tesla kool aid drinking fanboys that have flooded this forum. Well, this is a Tesla forum afterall so I should not be surprised.

 

[stopcrazypp]

In that case, Tesla Vapor 3.

I stayed on the sidelines, but no one stepped up to point out the obvious differences. It has already been mentioned that Tesla has a track record of building and selling EVs in significant volume.

What hasn't been mentioned is that Tesla already has the factory for both the car and the batteries. Tesla has already been building Model 3 beta/release candidates using their assembly line and is on track to release the car this year.

On the other hand, Lucid just selected their site for the $700 million factory late November last year, and as of February have not started factory construction yet, although they say they plan to this year (a quick google didn't find a factory construction announcement so I presume work has not started yet).
How Casa Grande secured the Lucid Motors manufacturing facility | AZ Big Media

In terms of funding, I haven't followed them closely, but from an interview with their CTO in February:
"Once Lucid's Series D funding round closes in the second quarter, Rawlinson says a portion of that money will go toward jump-starting the company's factory in Casa Grande, Arizona, and moving the Air to beta-stage development."
We took a 1,000-horsepower electric luxury sedan for a spin on the streets of Silicon Valley
So they don't have the money already yet to start the factory nor for beta development until the second quarter.

On the other hand, Tesla just closed a funding round so they have the money already to get Model 3 to production.

 

[green1]

I think you misunderstand. I have never said that Lucid will succeed, or that Tesla will fail.

I have however stated that the term vaporware does not apply to the Lucid Air at this time. Now that will change if they start missing the deadlines they've imposed, or start claiming things that are unreasonable to expect. But so far neither of those have happened.

At this point the Air is not "vaporware" it's simply an unreleased product. Just as the Model 3 is an unreleased product.

Lucid has many challenges ahead, and may well fail, but how about we wait for evidence of that failure before insisting that it will happen.

 

[RacerX]

Clear the Air – The $52,500 Lucid Air

Received an update from Lucid for the Air's starting base price. Very attractive starting price with a 240 mile range. Finally another affordable EV with a decent range. Let's just hope they have a plan to fast charge on roadtrips. The actual base price is $60K minus $7500 for federal tax credit for the $52500.

Looking forward to seeing what the final real world product looks like and feels like ...
Will it come out before 2020 and will it be worth it?
Having fun with my Tesla Model S now.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think you misunderstand. I have never said that Lucid will succeed, or that Tesla will fail.

I have however stated that the term vaporware does not apply to the Lucid Air at this time. Now that will change if they start missing the deadlines they've imposed, or start claiming things that are unreasonable to expect. But so far neither of those have happened.

At this point the Air is not "vaporware" it's simply an unreleased product. Just as the Model 3 is an unreleased product.

Lucid has many challenges ahead, and may well fail, but how about we wait for evidence of that failure before insisting that it will happen.

People are pushing back on you because you are drawing an equivalence between the Air and the Model 3 to try to support your point, when there is no equivalence to be had.

To put it simply, Lucid at the moment neither has a factory nor the money to build the factory. The stage they are at is similar to Faraday Future (which a lot of people have no qualms calling vaporware, even though Faraday Future did break ground on their factory already). You add criteria that it is invalid to call a product vaporware until they start missing deadlines, but others may not have that definition. As for "claiming things that unreasonable to expect", I can certainly see people that feel their projected 2018 delivery date for the Air as unreasonable given the stage they are at right now.

Personally, I see Lucid as more viable than FF given Lucid seems to be using their money more wisely.

 

[green1]

Personally, I see Lucid as more viable than FF given Lucid seems to be using their money more wisely.

FF could be considered vaporware because of the surrounding circumstances, their factory is late, and has already been downsized, their product failed to perform properly on stage, etc.

Lucid, with no such gaffes, is simply an un-released product.

If you think all unreleased products are "vaporware" unless Tesla is the one releasing them, you need to re-visit your definition.