Lucid Air base price $52500

[teslasuperfan]

I stayed on the sidelines, but no one stepped up to point out the obvious differences. It has already been mentioned that Tesla has a track record of building and selling EVs in significant volume.

What hasn't been mentioned is that Tesla already has the factory for both the car and the batteries. Tesla has already been building Model 3 beta/release candidates using their assembly line and is on track to release the car this year.

On the other hand, Lucid just selected their site for the $700 million factory late November last year, and as of February have not started factory construction yet, although they say they plan to this year (a quick google didn't find a factory construction announcement so I presume work has not started yet).
How Casa Grande secured the Lucid Motors manufacturing facility | AZ Big Media

In terms of funding, I haven't followed them closely, but from an interview with their CTO in February:
"Once Lucid's Series D funding round closes in the second quarter, Rawlinson says a portion of that money will go toward jump-starting the company's factory in Casa Grande, Arizona, and moving the Air to beta-stage development."
We took a 1,000-horsepower electric luxury sedan for a spin on the streets of Silicon Valley
So they don't have the money already yet to start the factory nor for beta development until the second quarter.

On the other hand, Tesla just closed a funding round so they have the money already to get Model 3 to production.

I completely agree with you but it is also not correct to call Lucid vapoware when they have several alpha and show cars running around.

 

[green1]

I completely agree with you but it is also not correct to call Lucid vapoware when they have several alpha and show cars running around.

Finally someone who sees my point!

I really hope Lucid pull this off, but I understand that it is by no means guaranteed. That said, their current steady progress towards attainable goals makes me think they have a reasonable chance, and keep this solidly out of the vaporware category for now. (but even I am willing to admit that might change, To put it in the "vaproware" category though I'd probably need to see more than one thing go wrong for them, for example not having broken ground on the factory by Q3, and news that a major investor has pulled out, or other such large setbacks.)

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I completely agree with you but it is also not correct to call Lucid vapoware when they have several alpha and show cars running around.

Vaporware is the correct definition, regardless of how many Alpha prototypes are running around. The company hasn't even broken ground on the facility that is to produce the vehicles...

 

[teslasuperfan]

Vaporware is the correct definition, regardless of how many Alpha prototypes are running around. The company hasn't even broken ground on the facility that is to produce the vehicles...

By this definition, Model 3 is vapoware. Hmmmm.........

 

[stopcrazypp]

By this definition, Model 3 is vapoware. Hmmmm.........

Well Model 3 is not a concept and it's not being "written", so key word would be "designed". Is Model 3 considered still being designed? We know there was the "pencils down" from a while back, but that may not be considered the end of the design stage.

We know right now that Elon says they are having release candidates being made (previously they would have been considered beta candidates, but Elon says there will be no betas for the Model 3). Beta/release candidates would be vehicles built using the same parts and manufacturing methods as the production model and pretty much will be almost the same as a production model (other than small tweaks to fix production issues). This may be seen as a valid "end of design" phase.

To bring this back on topic, the Air was just unveiled in December last year, and they have alphas (which are not built using the same parts/procedures as production so many changes can be expected). They do not have the cash yet to start beta development until end of second quarter, and they can't build beta candidates until they have the factory built and have a basic assembly line (full factory doesn't have to be built, just enough to have one full assembly line).

I should note that the definition says it is informal. As far as I know, there is no formal definition of vaporware.

 

[TexasEV]

I thought vaporware implied announcing a product coming soon in order to get people to defer purchasing a competitor's product that actually exists. I don't think anyone is deferring their Model S purchase now to wait for the Lucid Air.

 

[green1]

And that's my point. Every definition that makes the Air vaporware would also classify the 3 there. So it's simpler to admit that the Air isn't vaporware.

I'm not sure where google pulled that "definition" from, but if you look at the results just below it you'll find that all of the definitions also include an aspect of delays, hype, and missed expectations. None of which apply to the Air

 

[St Charles]

Definitely not Vaporware! I came across one today while I was driving home from work. I had a nice chat with their Directors of Sales and Marketing. The company definitely has some interesting takes on EV technology.

I was able to snap a few pictures but they were clearly on a mission to woo the DoE for funding. Hopefully having a Model S parked right next helped them in their mission as we definitely need competition to help motivate Tesla

 

[artisjr]

I also saw the Lucid air today. The director of sales was an Tesla employee for a few years. We have been talking on the phone a couple of days before they arrived in DC.

As a matter of fact I work on Capitol Hill, and knew about this visit since last week. On March 22, they will bring the car on Capitol Hill to woo some members of Congress. I will be there as well. This will be their last stop in DC. From there, the team will travel to NYC auto show.

I did not drive my Tesla, but I did break out my hat.

 

[TexasEV]

Are they driving it or flat bedding it from city to city? If driving, I wonder how they're charging it. The illustration on their web site of it plugged in looks like a proprietary connector.

 

[calisnow]

Two pages arguing about the definition of vaporware? Seriously????

 

[PowerSource]

Definitely not Vaporware! I came across one today while I was driving home from work. I had a nice chat with their Directors of Sales and Marketing. The company definitely has some interesting takes on EV technology.

I was able to snap a few pictures but they were clearly on a mission to woo the DoE for funding. Hopefully having a Model S parked right next helped them in their mission as we definitely need competition to help motivate Tesla

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Nice to see Doreen still in the business. She was one of the first Tesla employees. I remember when my first Model S was being built in 2012 she went down to the assembly line and took photos of it. Time flies!

 

[Ulmo]

According to Clear the Air – The $52,500 Lucid Air that interior and active suspension sounds precisely like what I've been searching for as a combination of Mercedes S-series with active suspension option and Tesla Model S, and it would come to about the same price (if not less) than my current Tesla Model S that doesn't have those two additional things. This is about the right speed for innovation of the current EV marketplace: an inexpensive Bolt EV and a more luxurious Lucid Air. Tesla is going to follow behind with a supposedly (unrevealed) better (than Bolt) Model 3 (which I believe), and "probably down the road" we are guessing an improved interior Model S and X in many years.

Timing is paramount: Tesla Model 3 will come out before Lucid Air does. Luxury improvements in the Tesla Model S & X interiors would probably come out at the same time as initial manufacturing of Lucid Air: it will be a bit of a showdown between those two, and whomever else wants to play, like Mercedes, and I don't know if Jaguar, BMW, other companies have anything coming in that space (GM Cadillac? Other names?), Faraday Future.

Good times!

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Definitely not Vaporware! I came across one today while I was driving home from work. I had a nice chat with their Directors of Sales and Marketing. The company definitely has some interesting takes on EV technology.

I was able to snap a few pictures but they were clearly on a mission to woo the DoE for funding. Hopefully having a Model S parked right next helped them in their mission as we definitely need competition to help motivate Tesla

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Oh. That's not quite as nice inside as I had hoped. But, I had the same problems with Bolt: 2D pictures never did it justice. I'd like to see, feel and drive it in person.
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You sound like those guys that put Fisker in the DJIA back in 2012.

Fisker is no Lucid. Just look at them! Completely different competence levels. No way Fisker could ever have succeeded: it was garbage.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

According to Clear the Air – The $52,500 Lucid Air that interior and active suspension sounds precisely like what I've been searching for as a combination of higher end optioned Mercedes S-series and Tesla Model S, and it would come to about the same price (if not less) than my current Tesla Model S that doesn't have those two additional things. This is about the right speed for innovation of the current EV marketplace: an inexpensive Bolt EV and a more luxurious Lucid Air. Tesla is going to follow behind with a supposedly (unrevealed) better (than Bolt) Model 3 (which I believe), and "probably down the road" we are guessing an improved interior Model S and X in many years.

Timing is paramount: Tesla Model 3 will come out before Lucid Air does. Luxury improvements in the Tesla Model S & X interiors would probably come out at the same time as initial manufacturing of Lucid Air: it will be a bit of a showdown between those two, and whomever else wants to play, like Mercedes, and I don't know if Jaguar, BMW, other companies have anything coming in that space (GM Cadillac? Other names?), Faraday Future.

Good times!

I don't see how the Lucid Air could be produced before 2020 with their current plan. I believe the MS/X will get a considerable update before then.

 

[PowerSource]

Fisker is no Lucid. Just look at them! Completely different competence levels. No way Fisker could ever have succeeded: it was garbage.

Fisker outsourced everything (including key components, battery etc) to suppliers. There was very little vertical integration with their failed business model. Once problems arose (along with delays) they had to depend on these suppliers to solve them. Tesla was smart in that they had multiple paths and were extremely vertically integrated. A lot of the parts on the Karma were off defunct brands (Saab, Saturn etc); suppliers dumped their scrap parts on them at a premium.

GM with the Bolt are running a similar business model (LG) but they may have enough scale to make it happen, but at the end of the day I just don't see the Bolt appealing to the EV masses. Plus the rumor is they are taking a loss on each car, and that there are Bolts sitting on the lots. They are going to have to discount them further; and even then I don't see much of a market for it.

The brains of the Model S was Rawlinson- who runs the show at Lucid. Extremely smart perfectionist who makes optimization and integration his main mission. This was a main reason the Model S has such a well thought out powertrain. Every inch of space was optimized. If Lucid has the $$$ and the manufacturing prowess (to me this is the biggest Risk) the Air will be in production and it will be a relatively compelling vehicle.

 

[artisjr]

Are they driving it or flat bedding it from city to city? If driving, I wonder how they're charging it. The illustration on their web site of it plugged in looks like a proprietary connector.

The car was in a covered truck this morning at the Senate.

 

[St Charles]

Are they driving it or flat bedding it from city to city? If driving, I wonder how they're charging it. The illustration on their web site of it plugged in looks like a proprietary connector.

The J1772 standard has some provision for 90kW of DC fast charging. I think they are planning to use this? The reps also talked about being able to charge significantly faster than that so I'm not sure it's set in stone yet. IMO, they should look into buying into Teslas charging infrastructure. I guess that would depend on what kind of terms the current Lucid execs are on with Musk...

 

[TexasEV]

Completely agree they should try to make a deal with Tesla for supercharging. I replied to the "Clear the Air" blog asking them to address charging as a future topic, and received a reply that they are evaluating all long distance charging options and are not ready to comment on the specifics of plans for fast charging yet.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The J1772 standard has some provision for 90kW of DC fast charging. I think they are planning to use this? The reps also talked about being able to charge significantly faster than that so I'm not sure it's set in stone yet. IMO, they should look into buying into Teslas charging infrastructure. I guess that would depend on what kind of terms the current Lucid execs are on with Musk...

They only have a few prototypes that probably cost them millions to built, so regardless of if there is infrastructure to make long distance trips on their tour (which is unlikely unless they share Tesla's network), it seems to make more sense to transport the cars in an enclosed trailer.

 

[jelloslug]

Remember, the Model S started at $57,500 when it first came out also...