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Ogre

Member
Sep 6, 2021
737
2,358
Oregon
Really? Some of you are suggesting 500+ miles range is what? Not a positive thing? JHC!
No

Someone suggested 500 miles was some kind of magic number or a requirement. It is not.

More mileage is always better but there is a certain amount of diminishing returns. Going from 100 miles of range to 200 miles is the difference between having a city car to one you can road trip in. Going from 200 miles to 300 miles is a huge improvement in quality of life as an EV owner. As you go up from there, the number of places where it makes a huge difference gets smaller and smaller.

The Lucid Air which has 500+ miles range is $139,000. That's $55,000 more than the Model S LR. I can deal with the limits of 400 miles range for a long time for that much cash.
 

Ogre

Member
Sep 6, 2021
737
2,358
Oregon
The tri-motor Cybertruck will be awesome.
Bingo!

For $70k, half of the cost of the cheapest 500 mile Lucid, you get that 500 mile range and enough capacity to carry the bikes in the bed.

Then you can drive to Yosemite and enjoy the views while your truck's biohazard defense mode works hard to filter out the smoke filled California air.
 

Giampigua

Member
Aug 27, 2020
29
23
Italy
If 520 were the sweet spot why don't gas cars have a 520 mile tank? Driving fast with gasoline cuts their range, too. And last I checked, gas cars don't get 400 miles on a fill up, but more like 300 miles, and they have to do 60 mph on cruise even then. 400 miles of range is 5 hours of driving at an average of 80 mph, and about that time I'm ready to stop for lunch, if not sooner. So I don't understand why some people think 520 is "sweet". Your gas car does not go 520 miles on a fill up.

Most people drive about 15,000 miles a year. That's about 50 miles a day, but it's actually less with large jumps in miles during vacations or trips. Gas cars have been around for decades, and most of them have a 300 mile tank, not 400, so your "par with gas cars" is a little exaggerated, so why do EVs need more?
520 EPA range miles is not 520 real world range.
if you sum real world highway speed+ winter weather + battery degradation + conservative battery range usage 10-90% that 520 miles translates into 300 real world miles. that's why many people - me included - are waiting for a 520 EPA range car.

ICE cars are not comparable, 'cause you can fill up the tank in 2-3 minutes...
 
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LCR1

Active Member
Oct 24, 2017
1,349
1,175
Houston
When I have the camper on and am pulling my fairground organ trailer my F350 diesel has a range of about 230 miles. I can tell you it is a serious PITA. I'm too big to access the pumps at most service stations, so I'm limited mostly to truck stops. More than once when traveling off the interstates I've had to resort to the spare 5 gal can of fuel I carry with me to make it to a station. Not bad training for a future EV, I'd say. At least the EVs have pretty good route planning software, there's no way to tell in advance whether you can get to the pumps at a given station that allegedly sells diesel.

Of course when I consider a cybertruck (or the Lightning), it is to laugh, as they say. Their range would be exactly zero with that kind of load.
Dude. Get a titan tank that’s like 60 gallons or toss an aux tank in the bed, I did the latter and get at least 1,000miles towing.
 
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Giampigua

Member
Aug 27, 2020
29
23
Italy
The Lucid Air which has 500+ miles range is $139,000. That's $55,000 more than the Model S LR. I can deal with the limits of 400 miles range for a long time for that much cash.
I guess that the lucid higher cost does not depend mainly on the larger battery size but on the luxury internal stuff.
I mean: in general terms we should compare the cost of the same or similar car with a bigger battery. I am quite shure that 20 kWh battery capacity increase does not cost $ 55.000.
Myself would not buy a Lucid in exchange of my model S because of that cost. But I would buy a less luxury lucid with that range for extra $ 10.000 / 15.000.
 

Ogre

Member
Sep 6, 2021
737
2,358
Oregon
Myself would not buy a Lucid in exchange of my model S because of that cost. But I would buy a less luxury lucid with that range for extra $ 10.000 / 15.000.
If you look across models, Tesla and most EV makers tend to charge roughly $100/ mile of extra range. Often there are other features mixed in, but if you look at Model Y pricing (SR vs LR), Cybertruck (dual versus tri motor), Rivian pricing (Big versus Max), Ford Mach E, Ford F150 Lightning (Extended Battery), they all hit you for roughly $100/ mile. So your $10,000 for 100 miles of more range is spot on.

I'm not a Model S shopper, but I would have paid $10,000 more for a Model Y with 420 miles of range.
 

sleepydoc

Member
Aug 2, 2020
403
386
Minneapolis
No

Someone suggested 500 miles was some kind of magic number or a requirement. It is not.

More mileage is always better but there is a certain amount of diminishing returns. Going from 100 miles of range to 200 miles is the difference between having a city car to one you can road trip in. Going from 200 miles to 300 miles is a huge improvement in quality of life as an EV owner. As you go up from there, the number of places where it makes a huge difference gets smaller and smaller.

The Lucid Air which has 500+ miles range is $139,000. That's $55,000 more than the Model S LR. I can deal with the limits of 400 miles range for a long time for that much cash.
I think 500 miles is more of a psychological magic number than any thing else, but psychology plays a heavy role in purchasing decisions.
 
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rwiegand

Member
Aug 19, 2021
36
31
Wayland, MA USA
Dude. Get a titan tank that’s like 60 gallons or toss an aux tank in the bed, I did the latter and get at least 1,000miles towing.
I wish. Can't put a tank in the bed because it's already filled with camper. Have a hard time justifying a couple thousand to install a bigger tank in a 15 year old truck that has other problems. Stupid not to have done it 10 years ago when I got the truck.
 

CraZ8

Member
Apr 18, 2015
399
552
Fort Montgomery NY
I wouldn’t count on it. This hunk of metal costs 180K
You are both wrong. The Lucid pure starts at 77k with a 400 mile range, the 600 hp touring is $95k which also has 400 miles, the 800 hp grand touring is $139k and has 517 miles. Finally the limited edition Air dream at $169k is split into two flavors a range model ( 933hp with 520 miles) and a performance model (1111 hp with 471 miles) so their 4 model line up brackets both the model s long range and the plaid
Tesla plaid stills comes out ahead on ultimate speed ( 0-60 in 2 sec vs the dream performance at 2.5 range at 2.7 and grand touring at 3.1 if I’m not mistaken) hope that helps
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,916
4,188
VB
You are both wrong. The Lucid pure starts at 77k with a 400 mile range, the 600 hp touring is $95k which also has 400 miles, the 800 hp grand touring is $139k and has 517 miles. Finally the limited edition Air dream at $169k is split into two flavors a range model ( 933hp with 520 miles) and a performance model (1111 hp with 471 miles) so their 4 model line up brackets both the model s long range and the plaid
Tesla plaid stills comes out ahead on ultimate speed ( 0-60 in 2 sec vs the dream performance at 2.5 range at 2.7 and grand touring at 3.1 if I’m not mistaken) hope that helps
Ok, well, I was basing that on what I read in this topic. But it doesn’t change much. 140K for a hunk of metal isn’t gonna put price pressure on the Model S…
 
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AquaY

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 30, 2021
481
1,564
Long Island NY
I think 520 is the sweet spot. I’m guessing the battery chemistry will want to be charged to 85% most of the time, and people like to drive fast (less efficient). That would put the actual range at about 400 which is on par with gas cars.

but I agree about price, it needs to be way cheaper. I’m hoping this new competition will push tesla and the other automakers to do better.
I keep my Model Y betwwen 20%and 85%
Tesla recommends 20 %-90%
I think you‘Re right that most will charge to 85%
if they also follow the guidelines of 20% on the lower end that makes the Lucid have a useful range of less than 340 miles under ideal conditions.
I think EPA estimates are good to have to get a ballpark and to compare vehicles but we have to consider the reality of how batteries will/should be charged.
 

CraZ8

Member
Apr 18, 2015
399
552
Fort Montgomery NY
Ok, well, I was basing that on what I read in this topic. But it doesn’t change much. 140K for a hunk of metal isn’t gonna put price pressure on the Model S…
I think you are wrong here. When you option up a long range models S with FSD, 21 inch wheels, a color other than white and an interior other then black you are at ~100K, the Plaid goes for ~145K simeraly equipped. The Lucid has an interior that would be at home in a Mercedes S class so I think there will be a lot of defections
 

CraZ8

Member
Apr 18, 2015
399
552
Fort Montgomery NY
Case in point, I'm driving my second back to back model S performance, 7 years total. I have never bought the same car back to back after decades of driving Audis, BMWs and Mercs. I was set to buy a plaid in 2022 but after seeing a Lucid parked a Manhattan classic car club I wandered over to the Lucid showroom. I was blown away by the car. I will be test driving one next month but i have already put a deposit on a Grand Touring. I really thought I would be a Tesla fanboi for the rest of my life but the refreshed S is not that big of a jump to what I have now. I'm just cold to the yoke steering wheel and the new interior that takes too many cues from the down market model 3. Plus with Elon opening up the superchargers to other makes Tesla looses that huge advantage. My two cents
 
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Dolemite

is my name
Sep 19, 2019
1,372
1,733
Seattle, WA
Case in point, I'm driving my second back to back model S performance, 7 years total. I have never bought the same car back to back after decades of driving Audis, BMWs and Mercs. I was set to buy a plaid in 2022 but after seeing a Lucid parked a Manhattan classic car club I wandered over to the Lucid showroom. I was blown away by the car. I will be test driving one next month but i have already put a deposit on a Grand Touring. I really thought I would be a Tesla fanboi for the rest of my life but the refreshed S is not that big of a jump to what I have now. I'm just cold to the yoke steering wheel and the new interior that takes too many cues from the down market model 3. Plus with Elon opening up the superchargers to other makes Tesla looses that huge advantage. My two cents
Looking forward to hours of entertaining comments by people who are personally offended by this.
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,916
4,188
VB
I think you are wrong here. When you option up a long range models S with FSD, 21 inch wheels, a color other than white and an interior other then black you are at ~100K, the Plaid goes for ~145K simeraly equipped. The Lucid has an interior that would be at home in a Mercedes S class so I think there will be a lot of defections
Well, you are certainly entitled to be wrong. A couple of points:

you added FSD to the price for no reason. You can get all the driver assist features the lucid has without paying 10K for fsd. But even if you include it, it’s still a 40K price difference.

plaid outperforms a lucid, and there is only one reason to buy a plaid. Maximum performance.

I didn’t say there wouldn’t be some people who see that ugly thing roll buy and think “damn girl you ugly but I need you in my life” but those people want something different than a Tesla and Tesla telling them “I’m a cheaper date” isn’t going to sway there mind.

If someone wants to spend 140K to get the ultra lux interior of a lucid, Tesla offering the Model S for 10K less at 70K isn’t going to sway them. And let’s be honest, if you are buying a 140K car you price elasticity is basically zero.

case in point, off all the reasons you listed for why you chose a lucid over a model s, price wasn’t one of them, because you don’t care about price, you care about features, and you think lucid as better features. If Tesla offered thr model s for 10K cheaper you wouldn’t all of a sudden change your mind. Most people in the high end car market are like that. 10K is pennies.
 

CraZ8

Member
Apr 18, 2015
399
552
Fort Montgomery NY
Looking forward to hours of entertaining comments by people who are personally offended by this.
LOL might have kicked over the hornets nest for sure. Tesla does inspire a fierce loyalty. Don’t get me wrong, I really have enjoyed both my model Ss, I think the plaid knocks it out of the park for performance, that’s why the mild warm over for the exterior and interior is so disappointing for me.
 

orion2001

Member
Apr 14, 2021
199
488
NC
This thread was an entertaining read. So much sour grapes and gymnastics trying to marginalize Lucid's accomplishment. Tons of other EV makers are currently trying to compete against Tesla and no one else has even come close to matching Tesla on efficiency, including Merc. It feels absurd to hate on Lucid for surpassing Tesla in the efficiency game. They should be commended for achieving this even if their car isn't for you.

You don't like the aesthetics, cool, don't need to buy one. You don't like the price point, cool, get something else. You don't like more range and shorter and fewer charging stops...okayyy, sure, you do you (though this one is really inexplicable). But let's not pretend that this isn't an excellent engineering effort from them AND this is good news for all EV owners, including the Tesla diehards here. If nothing else, it is going to push Tesla to up their range on newer releases, even if it requires them to increase their battery pack sizes while reducing margins slightly while they try to sort out their 4680 issues. All EV consumers are going to be winners if Lucid drives manufacturers to focus more on increasing their range.
 

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