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  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #34 is available now with topics timestamped. We covered Tesla's rollercoaster prices, Toyota pushing junk science, Mike's new Model 3, Optimizing track mode for snow driving, FSD V11 apparently coming by the end of this week, and more. You can watch and check out the chat replay on YouTube.

Lucid Air Grand Touring vs Tesla Model S Plaid.

The Nevera is not marginally faster. It’s what? 8.58 through the quarter? That’s significant.
Yes 9.2 vs 8.6 is significant in the 1/4 no doubt. But on the street blasting 0-80 I don’t think there’s going to be a substantial difference. In my daily use the plaid is traction limited much moreso with temps below 60*. The roads around here just aren’t great.
 
I am surprised Elon has not bumped up the Model S total range to get it at or past what the Lucid Air in all Air lines is doing now. Doubt it would be that hard for him to do that.

I think Lucid made a mistake by coming out with 4 different versions of its Air and not simplifying the order/option process. Love how Tesla makes the ordering process so simple with so few options to buy. Must make it easy to manufacturer too. Lucid Air does not even come with self lane centering as standard, you have to spend $9k just to get that.

Since Lucid is a startup, it does not have the time to become financially solvent that Tesla did when it was the only game with the Model S. Model Y/3 are Tesla’s bread and butter and Lucid Air will not be that for Lucid. There is only so many people you can sell a $100k car too and the market is much more competitive now too. I do really like the looks and interior of the Lucid, but have yet to drive one.
 
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The comparo with sapphire and plaid is pretty pointless... why? Because acceleration above 1k hp is going to be fairly close in terms of feel, maybe a slight difference in terms of the blood rush to the back of your head? But for the difference in price, I can get another car or two or short Lucid stock a bit more? Options are much more appealing than dumping it on the sapphire...
 

WilliamG

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Apr 20, 2019
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Yes 9.2 vs 8.6 is significant in the 1/4 no doubt. But on the street blasting 0-80 I don’t think there’s going to be a substantial difference. In my daily use the plaid is traction limited much moreso with temps below 60*. The roads around here just aren’t great.
Sure, road dependence is a thing. But that’s true for the Plaid vs cars slower, like Taycans etc… At the end of the day the Sapphire is going to be a faster car. That’s the bottom line.
 
Agreed. Based on what I have seen, no other EV manufacturer has quite discovered or matched Tesla's secret sauce, at least for EV drivetrain. That will no doubt improve for Tesla's rivals, but it is just not there yet for them.

Teslas are not perfect, although I must say that our Model 3 so far has done very well in terms of reliably meeting our own needs, as has the Tesla Supercharger system. My only 'beefs' with our Model 3 are relatively minor: improve the windshield wiper functionality in 'auto' mode and do something more useful and interesting with the left part - the most accessible part - of the vehicle touchscreen. While I know that this has not been the case for all Tesla customers, our own experience with basic reliability on our Model 3 has been essentially faultless - best I have had in over 30 years of vehicle ownership.


its a good watch, they compare the motors to the plaid and the taycan. lucid motors are very efficient and advanced. just looking at the way they do the windings and package everything with the inverter and gearbox into a tiny little like almost basketball sized package its pretty mind blowing. They didnt get all that range with off the shelf motors and a huge battery pack. Theres some real innovation happening with lucids motors.

I am surprised Elon has not bumped up the Model S total range to get it at or past what the Lucid Air in all Air lines is doing now. Doubt it would be that hard for him to do that.

I think Lucid made a mistake by coming out with 4 different versions of its Air and not simplifying the order/option process. Love how Tesla makes the ordering process so simple with so few options to buy. Must make it easy to manufacturer too. Lucid Air does not even come with self lane centering as standard, you have to spend $9k just to get that.

Since Lucid is a startup, it does not have the time to become financially solvent that Tesla did when it was the only game with the Model S. Model Y/3 are Tesla’s bread and butter and Lucid Air will not be that for Lucid. There is only so many people you can sell a $100k car too and the market is much more competitive now too. I do really like the looks and interior of the Lucid, but have yet to drive one.

I dont think its as simple as OTA 520 mile update. Elon is pretty adamant about the 100kwh battery being more than enough for every day use and they've optimized the range as best they could with that. Given the set limit of size, I could see battery technology improving for better charging rates. Give me faster charging over longer range any day. I dont care to get super long range if it takes as long as a hummer ev to charge.

Lucid came out with 4 different versions with very different performance and range targets. I will give you the price ranges are drastically large. ill be curious how my order for a $70k lucid air pure stacks up against the $170k lucid air dream edition. Lucid does come with ADAS and traffic jam assist in its basic DreamDrive. the 9k option gets you the hardware equipment for some level of FSD at some point in the future but I dont believe thatll be anytime soon.
You can review the differences between the two but the base model does come with lane centering and will aim to be a tesla ap competitor.

Financially solvent for Tesla is much different as they were the ground breakers and innovators in this space. No one even though about EVs are a daily driver til tesla came along with the model s. They struggled through public adversity and lobbyists trying to make it cool. Every newcomer now has it easy because tesla paved the way. That being said, pretty sure lucid will be solvent for the long run considering they're heavily invested in by one of the biggest oil nations in the world trying to diversify their investments into clean energy.

The comparo with sapphire and plaid is pretty pointless... why? Because acceleration above 1k hp is going to be fairly close in terms of feel, maybe a slight difference in terms of the blood rush to the back of your head? But for the difference in price, I can get another car or two or short Lucid stock a bit more? Options are much more appealing than dumping it on the sapphire...

Competition only drives more competition so its a very valid comparison, but I personally agree with you though. Im very content with my model x plaid and its faster than my mind can compute at times so I have little desire to go to even a model s plaid let alone something even faster. But these are looking to be track weapons so they're battling in a very different space. Sapphire could be a serious contender if its able to knock down some Nurburgring thrones.
 

its a good watch, they compare the motors to the plaid and the taycan. lucid motors are very efficient and advanced. just looking at the way they do the windings and package everything with the inverter and gearbox into a tiny little like almost basketball sized package its pretty mind blowing. They didnt get all that range with off the shelf motors and a huge battery pack. Theres some real innovation happening with lucids motors.



I dont think its as simple as OTA 520 mile update. Elon is pretty adamant about the 100kwh battery being more than enough for every day use and they've optimized the range as best they could with that. Given the set limit of size, I could see battery technology improving for better charging rates. Give me faster charging over longer range any day. I dont care to get super long range if it takes as long as a hummer ev to charge.

Lucid came out with 4 different versions with very different performance and range targets. I will give you the price ranges are drastically large. ill be curious how my order for a $70k lucid air pure stacks up against the $170k lucid air dream edition. Lucid does come with ADAS and traffic jam assist in its basic DreamDrive. the 9k option gets you the hardware equipment for some level of FSD at some point in the future but I dont believe thatll be anytime soon.
You can review the differences between the two but the base model does come with lane centering and will aim to be a tesla ap competitor.

Financially solvent for Tesla is much different as they were the ground breakers and innovators in this space. No one even though about EVs are a daily driver til tesla came along with the model s. They struggled through public adversity and lobbyists trying to make it cool. Every newcomer now has it easy because tesla paved the way. That being said, pretty sure lucid will be solvent for the long run considering they're heavily invested in by one of the biggest oil nations in the world trying to diversify their investments into clean energy.



Competition only drives more competition so its a very valid comparison, but I personally agree with you though. Im very content with my model x plaid and its faster than my mind can compute at times so I have little desire to go to even a model s plaid let alone something even faster. But these are looking to be track weapons so they're battling in a very different space. Sapphire could be a serious contender if its able to knock down some Nurburgring thrones.
The 100kwh battery idea is exactly what Kyle Connor from Out of Spec said as well. He believes the majority of most EV's going forward will have 100kwh or less batteries and 800v architecture to maximize charging speeds without the added weight and expense of more lithium to the vehicles.
 
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You can review the differences between the two but the base model does come with lane centering and will aim to be a tesla ap competitor.
I don’t think you are right that lane centering comes without buying Drivers Assistance Pro. I frequent/post on the Lucid forum all the time (as have a Lucid on order) and a lot posters are upset that it does not come as standard. Hope you are right, as huge mistake if it does not come as standard. I will probably be canceling my order if it is not standard.

The weakest part of the Lucid is the charging network. So hard to compete against Tesla’s network. I also do not like the trunk, but the frunk helps make up for it. Still not sure if I will keep my order or cancel it and keep my refresh Model S. Wish there was a location in Ohio to test drive the Lucid Air.
 
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FYI: before anyone writes a check for a $160k car (or even the base model for that matter), you may have some second thoughts if they don't get their production up and costs down.

The odds remain high that there's a bankruptcy in their future as they just can't get the business right, as in, "not even close" to becoming a going concern. That could potentially leave you with a white elephant of a car with no warranty, no repair support, and no resale value either . . . . Yes, they're likely to get another cash infusion from the Saudis (which is a whole other moral and ethical issue given the Washington Post writer's murder at the Saudi consulate, human rights abuses, etc.) but that largesse won't last forever.

The COGS comparison between Lucid (and Rivian) and Tesla at similar stages of production is just mind-blowing; Elon is likely to be spot on correct with his BK prediction:

 
I don’t think you are right that lane centering comes without buying Drivers Assistance Pro. I frequent/post on the Lucid forum all the time (as have a Lucid on order) and a lot posters are upset that it does not come as standard. Hope you are right, as huge mistake if it does not come as standard. I will probably be canceling my order if it is not standard.

The weakest part of the Lucid is the charging network. So hard to compete against Tesla’s network. I also do not like the trunk, but the frunk helps make up for it. Still not sure if I will keep my order or cancel it and keep my refresh Model S. Wish there was a location in Ohio to test drive the Lucid Air.

Yeah I was pretty confused about that as well but I believe Highway Assist will be coming to basic DreamDrive. Currently only Dream Drive Pro has lane centering enabled but most of the cars they've sold came with Dream Drive Pro included or optioned to get ahead of the line. I am assuming they will enable these features to basic Dream Drive at a later date.
Quoted from the above link
  • DreamDrive™ system offers more than 30 driver-assistance features, including collision avoidance, Traffic Jam assist, and Highway Assist
"The Highway Assist group of features is designed to help drivers stay safe, while also making the Lucid Air even more delightful to drive. Highway Assist blends adaptive cruise control and lane centering control to help keep the Lucid Air right where it belongs on the freeway, at a safe distance from the vehicle ahead and other lanes. Traffic Jam Assist operates at speeds between 0 and 40 miles per hour, aiding in centering the vehicle when lane lines are occluded by close traffic. For vehicles equipped with DreamDrive Pro, further functions for Highway Assist are already in development"
 
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vcor

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Nov 29, 2012
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Wonder if Dream Vision is just a repackaged Mobileye system. Back in 2016 Lucid said it was, but little more has been said since then. The last article I could find, about a year ago, seems to think it still is: Is the Final Version of Lucid Group's (LCID) DreamDrive at Least Partially Based on Intel's Mobileye?

Makes sense, as I don't see how a small startup could develop such a system. That is good and bad. Good that someone else is responsible to design it that has more resources than Lucid. Bad in that Lucid has little control over the features and timelines. If Mobileye screws up, they have no way to fix it. They also have no way to differentiate from all the other Mobileye customers and the problematic HD map-reliant system.
 
FYI: before anyone writes a check for a $160k car (or even the base model for that matter), you may have some second thoughts if they don't get their production up and costs down.

The odds remain high that there's a bankruptcy in their future as they just can't get the business right, as in, "not even close" to becoming a going concern. That could potentially leave you with a white elephant of a car with no warranty, no repair support, and no resale value either . . . . Yes, they're likely to get another cash infusion from the Saudis (which is a whole other moral and ethical issue given the Washington Post writer's murder at the Saudi consulate, human rights abuses, etc.) but that largesse won't last forever.

The COGS comparison between Lucid (and Rivian) and Tesla at similar stages of production is just mind-blowing; Elon is likely to be spot on correct with his BK prediction:

I agree with these points. When I wrote earlier in this thread that no other EV manufacturer has yet matched Tesla's "secret sauce", and especially so on drivetrain, I would have included Lucid as an exception, but Lucid is not yet a large scale EV going concern, given their tiny production numbers, and I am not entirely convinced they will be a going concern at all in the long run. I do hope that Lucid does survive, prosper, and expand because their technology does look to be quite interesting, but we will have to wait and see.
 
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