Lucid Air Promises PMSM Motors That Behave Like Induction Units

[TMC Staff]

The vehicle is also now open to reservations in the Middle East. There are many startups and even legacy automakers preparing their EVs. Anyway, apart from Rivian, Lucid Motors is probably the one that deserves more attention. If not for the fact that Peter Rawlinson is the man behind the Tesla Model S’s engineering, at...
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[Brando]

"We had a breakthrough where when you spin up that magnetic motor it’ll spin very, very close to the way an induction motor would.”

An electric motor that actually spins - astounding.

So he designed the Lucid around a 900-volt architecture. “It’s the only one I’m aware of,” he says. “Tesla’s round about 400 V. Porsche, they upped the ante last year to 800 V.”

So we need another charger network? When do they start installing those? Tesla, VW, Porsche, Lucid fast charge networks - competition is usually fine for the consumer, we hope it keeps prices down. Who knew how complex it would become?

Lucid’s inverter—which he boasts was built completely in-house—uses a silicon carbide MOSFET chip, which he says “really thrives” on high voltage. He lambastes Porsche for using a high-voltage IGBT (insulated-gate bipolar transistor), which is “probably the worst way to do it—nowhere near as efficient at high voltage as silicon carbide.”

Silicon carbide MOSFET vs IGBT ? I think I remember the 2008 Roadster used IGBT? and I'm not sure what Tesla uses now and may be different depending on motor type or Model. And we know Tesla uses a constant improvement strategy.

Wikipedia didn't help me much - I'm too uneducated in electronics. It did make me realize that like computer chips, all micro electronics are evolving.
Insulated-gate bipolar transistor - Wikipedia

side note: We still want for solid (mathematical) theory of the details of how batteries actually work. Hence, we rely on experimentation. So advances have been ~ 5-10% per year or about 100% per decade for last 30 years or so.

Trying to understand a product that is still in design is hard to predict. The future might change.

 

[MXLRplus]

The existing EA network is up to 1000vdc. All CCS new builds are 1000v compatible.

HOWEVER, you can do a trick with a solenoid and charge at 500v even with a 900v battery,

 

[ICUDoc]

Trying to understand a product that is still in design is hard to predict. The future might change

A sensible paradigm in considering ALL the EV stuff one reads about...
Taycan came true (with all its limitations and advantages) but I have my doubts about some other promised vehicles

 

[Uncle Paul]

Most all electric motors and batteries come with comprimizes. If you focus on one specific criteria, often other, also significant/valuable atributes may suffer.
Porsche says they sacraficed range for additional power draw. This fits their high performance image, but also shows up on the EPA range estimates. Other quests are ease of manufacture, cost, availability of materials, heat, efficiency, charging speed, longevity, stability etc.

 

[MXLRplus]

Most all electric motors and batteries come with comprimizes. If you focus on one specific criteria, often other, also significant/valuable atributes may suffer.
Porsche says they sacraficed range for additional power draw. This fits their high performance image, but also shows up on the EPA range estimates. Other quests are ease of manufacture, cost, availability of materials, heat, efficiency, charging speed, longevity, stability etc.

Porsche also increased the width of the tire contact patches, road stiction, and aero downforce. The powertrain is designed to be hammered on constantly at full power, unlike it's cousin the Audi eTron. If I could somehow justify sinking $250k into a 5300lb late model sport sedan, I'd probably have one.

Due to Covid I took a rain check on testing the Taycan, but C&D said this about range: "More surprisingly, the Porsche held its own in our 75-mph range test. While the EPA says there's a 134-mile difference in the range between the two, extrapolating from our 100-mile run, the real-world difference amounts to 10 miles in the Tesla's (MS P100DL) favor." I've also spoken with owners who indicate the same thing.

 

[Uncle Paul]

That may be true for the antidotal reports, but EPA standards are the Gold Standards for automotive range testing.

 

[ACA Man]

How I Got 295 Miles of Range Out of the Porsche Taycan Turbo

 

[ICUDoc]

How I Got 295 Miles of Range Out of the Porsche Taycan Turbo

When will someone do a REAL range test of a Tesla Raven Performance and a Porsche Taycan Turbo side-by-side across a range of constitutions until they run out of juice. Anytime you estimate your total range by adding the "range remaining" to elapsed distance is second best.

 

[wws]

...
Silicon carbide MOSFET vs IGBT ? I think I remember the 2008 Roadster used IGBT? and I'm not sure what Tesla uses now and may be different depending on motor type or Model. And we know Tesla uses a constant improvement strategy....

Tesla has been using SiC in their power electronics since the Model 3 came out. That was also part of the upgrade in the Raven Model S/X.

 

[wycolo]

> So he designed the Lucid around a 900-volt architecture. “It’s the only one I’m aware of,” he says. “Tesla’s round about 400 V. Porsche, they upped the ante last year to 800 V.” [quoted by Brando from article]

If we are talking about motors then battery voltage is not the issue, the output voltage of the inverter is. And no one knows what voltage that is.
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