Lucid Air Will Be Better Than Model S, Says Former Tesla Engineer

[Spacep0d]

Yeah, the front view is gorgeous. WOW!

Yeah this is a nice angle. Front is nice and clean.

 

[phrank]

Really feel that overal design and interior materials used is where Tesla is lacking and just being behind with the latest trends from other manufacturers. The rest of their packaging and software is where they are still far ahead.

 

[ICUDoc]

The Lucid Air looks excellent- the metrics they advertised are super-impressive: a 400m time of under 10s is nuts.
What a great advantage they have had over Tesla, having the opportunity to copy all the good bits from the 2012 Model S, while also being able to ameliorate the bad bits eg the "foot garages" they have implemented. Tesla have stayed alive by making the Model 3, I wonder what Lucid will do?
All that said: I can't wait for the Plaid version. Or the Roadster. Either one will do - just hurry up!

 

[Quamera]

I'm very interested in the Lucid Air. I really want a classic luxury car, and I think an EV with its quieter, smoother drivetrain is a natural progression of luxury vehicles. It's my personal taste and I understand that many don't want the same. For me, I'd much rather pay for high end leather, bespoke design, etc. than autopilot, summon, or other things which I won't use. People have different tastes, so the more choices the better IMO.

I just hope Lucid offers a soft, cushy suspension as well. It's annoying how every car tries to be a sports car these days. Lucid stating that the 1000hp is just a byproduct of having a large battery gives me hope that they're not just chasing performance numbers.

Oh dear, you want soft, cushy suspension with 1000HP and a sub 10 sec 1/4 mile, that's a recipe for disaster unless they have also developed a smart suspension that is firm when driven hard but soft if it senses more relaxed driving.

 

[PJFW8]

Yeah, I know this was behind your misplaced satire. It’s simply wrong to imply they’ve just stated they’ve built a car. They’ve built the car. How else do you think Lucid has set such high marks in all these tests? These aren’t prototypes either.

I can assure you we don’t need the price released to know it’s going to be a low-volume luxury EV. They don’t need to prove they can do the M3 scale-up, because they’re not doing one. It’s similar to how Tesla started with the S, albeit with a much better initial offering. Lucid doesn’t have the advantage of there being no bar like when the S was released, although there are more EV aware buyers. Hopefully it’s actual luxury, and not just premium like S.


What have Audi and Porsche learned? The Taycan is a better luxury car than the S, and the E-Tron better in many regards than the MY and X. Tesla is targeting increasingly down-market, American and Chinese buyers. I don’t think that’s what Audi and Porsche are going after, which are mostly emissions metrics

I actually agree with you. Bottom line is Lucid is not really a direct competitor with Tesla. Lucid is in a true luxury class. But then again a pilot run of a few cars is not the same as production. My comment about Porsche and Audi have to do with the fact that their range is not competitive in the United States. They are certainly quite a bit behind in electric vehicle technology. On the other hand their vehicles are very well-built and very luxurious. I have had them both. But they have a lot to learn from Tesla about EV tech.

 

[RobStark]

A true luxury interior with 0-60 of 2.4 s and 1/4 mile of 9.9 s is going to eat true sports sedan sales as well.

I can't imagine a car in this price class not having interior adjustable suspension.

The big advantage for Model S is 5th door plus Supercharger/Service Network.

Porsche will soon have a Taycan wagon(Cross Turismo).

Lucid will first concentrate on Cities with large Tesla registrations.

Los Angeles,San Jose, New York, Washington DC,Miami, Seattle,Houston and Dallas and when they get to Europe Oslo,Amsterdam and London.

Here are there announced locations.

• Silicon Valley Studio: Located at Lucid’s Global Headquarters in Newark, CA
• Los Angeles Studios: Located at 9022 Wilshire Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA, and at Westfield Century City in Century City, CA
• Los Angeles Service Center: Located at 9022 Wilshire Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA
• San Jose Studio: Located at Westfield Valley Fair in San Jose, CA
• Miami Studio: Located at Brickell City Centre in Miami, FL
• West Palm Beach Studio: Located at Rosemary Square in West Palm Beach, FL
• New York City Studio: Located in the Meatpacking District, NY
• DC Metro Studio: Located at Tysons Corner Center in Tysons, VA

 

[BlindPass]

A true luxury interior with 0-60 of 2.4 s and 1/4 mile of 9.9 s is going to eat true sports sedan sales as well.

I can't imagine a car in this price class not having interior adjustable suspension.

The big advantage for Model S is 5th door plus Supercharger/Service Network.

Porsche will soon have a Taycan wagon(Cross Turismo).

Lucid will first concentrate on Cities with large Tesla registrations.

Los Angeles,San Jose, New York, Washington DC,Miami, Seattle,Houston and Dallas and when they get to Europe Oslo,Amsterdam and London.

Here are there announced locations.

• Silicon Valley Studio: Located at Lucid’s Global Headquarters in Newark, CA
• Los Angeles Studios: Located at 9022 Wilshire Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA, and at Westfield Century City in Century City, CA
• Los Angeles Service Center: Located at 9022 Wilshire Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA
• San Jose Studio: Located at Westfield Valley Fair in San Jose, CA
• Miami Studio: Located at Brickell City Centre in Miami, FL
• West Palm Beach Studio: Located at Rosemary Square in West Palm Beach, FL
• New York City Studio: Located in the Meatpacking District, NY
• DC Metro Studio: Located at Tysons Corner Center in Tysons, VA

A $100k-$150k luxury sports sedan that can go 2.3 0-60 is a small market. The S sales have dwindled (as have nearly all sedan sales).

The Dream trim of the Air is as much establishing brand as selling cas, similar to the Roadster and S. I think the Air will end up better than the S, but making superior EV isn’t being a Tesla killer.

 

[RobStark]

A $100k-$150k luxury sports sedan that can go 2.3 0-60 is a small market.

No kidding. For a brand new automaker that might have 34k unit/year capacity the market is more than big enough.

The S sales have dwindled (as have nearly all sedan sales).

S has been on the market for over 8 years. Tesla has upgraded the drivetrain and tech but refuses to give S an exterior or interior refresh, aside from removing the nose cones many moons ago that should have never made production in the first place. Good design doesn't tell lies.

Took away leather and alcantara interior. Took away cooled seats. Headlights and tail lights are ancient. Isn't it time S has articulating LED headlights? Brushed aluminum speaker covers?

The top trim of the Toyota Camry has articulating LED headlights and has had them since 2018 model year.

The Dream trim of the Air is as much establishing brand as selling cas, similar to the Roadster and S. I think the Air will end up better than the S, but making superior EV isn’t being a Tesla killer.

Anybody talking "Tesla Killer" as a serious concept is an idiot.

Tesla's main business is selling $40k-$55k vehicles. And soon battery energy storage.

But Model S remains the flagship. Still important for a Company that ideologically refuses to do paid advertising.

The first car from an automaker always establishes the brand, for better or worse.

 

[BlindPass]

No kidding. For a brand new automaker that might have 34k unit/year capacity the market is more than big enough.





S has been on the market for over 8 years. Tesla has upgraded the drivetrain and tech but refuses to give S an exterior or interior refresh, aside from removing the nose cones many moons ago that should have never made production in the first place. Good design doesn't tell lies.

Took away leather and alcantara interior. Took away cooled seats. Headlights and tail lights are ancient. Isn't it time S has articulating LED headlights? Brushed aluminum speaker covers?

The top trim of the Toyota Camry has articulating LED headlights and has had them since 2018 model year.



Anybody talking "Tesla Killer" as a serious concept is an idiot.

Tesla's main business is selling $40k-$55k vehicles. And soon battery energy storage.

But Model S remains the flagship. Still important for a Company that ideologically refuses to do paid advertising.

The first car from an automaker always establishes the brand, for better or worse.

If they hit 15k/year of Air sales in the next few years it will be impressive imo. Sedans are a tough business right now.


You talk about the S being a flagship, but as you pointed out, it lacks in many ways. I guess it’s telling that Tesla’s flagship is nearly all that way due to drivetrain and storage- Tesla’s future is more of an energy and Tech company than a manufacturer of elite EVs.

 

[RobStark]

If they hit 15k/year of Air sales in the next few years it will be impressive imo. Sedans are a tough business right now.


You talk about the S being a flagship, but as you pointed out, it lacks in many ways. I guess it’s telling that Tesla’s flagship is nearly all that way due to drivetrain and storage- Tesla’s future is more of an energy and Tech company than a manufacturer of elite EVs.

There is more than enough demand for premium sedans for Tesla to sell 50k Model S per year AND Lucid to sell 34k Air per year.

Tesla just has to update Model S.

Flagship is not the bread and butter. In any Armada only 1 ship is the flagship.

In world where Tesla is ideologically opposed to paid advertisement it is important that media is hyping how great Model S is and beating Taycan at Nurburgring etc etc.

For Many the desire to buy a Model Yw/ FSD ,Powerwall, Solar Roof, and Wall Connector start with watching youtube vids of Model S beating a Ferrari at the drag strip.

That is why Model S is important. Not for the direct profits from selling Model S.

 

[BlindPass]

There is more than enough demand for premium sedans for Tesla to sell 50k Model S per year AND Lucid to sell 34k Air per year.

Tesla just has to update Model S.

Flagship is not the bread and butter. In any Armada only 1 ship is the flagship.

In world where Tesla is ideologically opposed to paid advertisement it is important that media is hyping how great Model S is and beating Taycan at Nurburgring etc etc.

For Many the desire to buy a Model Yw/ FSD ,Powerwall, Solar Roof, and Wall Connector start with watching youtube vids of Model S beating a Ferrari at the drag strip.

That is why Model S is important. Not for the direct profits from selling Model S.

You think in the next few years the Air and the S will combine to sell 80k? I’ll take that bet.

No, Tesla doesn’t just need to update the S to hit 50k in sales. Price, EV adoption rates, and CUV as competition are issues. An update that comes with a price increase, will slow growth, as there just isn’t yet the demand for full sedans over $100k. At that price, buyers are increasingly preferring SUVs and CUVs.

It needs more than an update, it needs Tesla to do something new they’ve never done- build a luxury car, which arguably goes against the ethos of Tesla (sustainability/Robo taxis, lean production, etc).

 

[PJFW8]

What would Tesla gain competing in the high end luxury market? The only point of making the S originally was to finance the 3 and Y. The ultra-luxury market is always small and never mass-market. The tri-motor S will be a sport sedan not a Bentley. Lucid will compete primarily with Porsche not so much with Tesla. Having said this. Audi level interior quality would be an appropriate target in S's price class.

 

[BlindPass]

What would Tesla gain competing in the high end luxury market? The only point of making the S originally was to finance the 3 and Y. The ultra-luxury market is always small and never mass-market. The tri-motor S will be a sport sedan not a Bentley. Lucid will compete primarily with Porsche not so much with Tesla. Having said this. Audi level interior quality would be an appropriate target in S's price class.

No one is talking ultra-luxury, but yes, Tesla will not be competing with Bentley.

Call the class whatever you want, but the current S performance, and particularly the future tri-motor S, are competitors of the Air Dream and two of the Taycans, all of which are not high volume. Thus far Tesla has gotten by with being a premium car guised as a luxury car, but that’s unlikely to continue. As a successful “flagship”, they’ll need to improve the indulgences on the S, which really goes against what Tesla is about imo.

 

[PJFW8]

I agree. I’m not totally sure of the value of a flagship for a company like Tesla. Even for Mercedes, does the S class sell any C class cars? I owned several Mercedes vehicles and never covered the S. Still, Tesla could use an aspirational vehicle If they want to continue to make cars.

 

[BlindPass]

I agree. I’m not totally sure of the value of a flagship for a company like Tesla. Even for Mercedes, does the S class sell any C class cars? I owned several Mercedes vehicles and never covered the S. Still, Tesla could use an aspirational vehicle If they want to continue to make cars.

Good question. I think in previous generations, it may have. Before the proliferation of digital advertising, flagships were more effective at branding imo.

I’ve never wanted a S-Class. Flagships on ICE for me usually meant the car being inferior in qualities I wanted as a driver. A little different with the MS vs M3. Although the M3 is more “fun“ to drive, the extra range and acceleration was worth it on the S.

But if charging and range improves so that EVs are a large majority of car sales, the benefit of range is decreased. And If autonomous driving takes over like is in some Tesla projections, “fun to drive” things like handling and acceleration are also marginalized. You’ll have low volume “driver cars”, overpriced S-Class luxurious personal taxis that show the world you have money (some things never change), and spartan robo taxis fleets for most everyone else.

 

[uujjj2]

People's values are changing. In the US, Boomers think of cars as status symbols. The youngest generation thinks of cars as appliances. So the whole fancy luxury car market in the US is getting smaller over time.

(This is not the case internationally.)

 

[Altair7]

There is more than enough demand for premium sedans for Tesla to sell 50k Model S per year AND Lucid to sell 34k Air per year.

Exactly. From https://www.automobilemag.com/news/...,total is about 200,000 shy of 2018's numbers.

Bestselling Luxury/Premium Brands

1. BMW - 324,826
2. Mercedes-Benz - 316,094
3. Lexus - 298,114
4. Audi - 224,111
5. Acura - 157,385

 

[BlindPass]

Exactly. From https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2019-year-auto-sales-2019/#:~:text=For the fourth consecutive year, auto sales still,total is about 200,000 shy of 2018's numbers.

Bestselling Luxury/Premium Brands

1. BMW - 324,826
2. Mercedes-Benz - 316,094
3. Lexus - 298,114
4. Audi - 224,111
5. Acura - 157,385

Not exactly. You realize those figures are not just for $100k sedans?

Yes, there’s a big market for luxury SUVs, CUVs, and cars much cheaper than the flagship sedans we’re discussing.

 

[BlindPass]

How Lucid Motors Plans to Spin Tesla-Killing Strategy Out of Air

This article has the Air Dream edition at just over $160k after rebate. Kind of makes sense if it’s better EV technology than the current S (517 miles and better acceleration) plus an actual luxury trim.

But if true, also a positive for Tesla Model S sales. Plaid could go up $40k, and still be more affordable.

Imo this further cements the two companies coexistence. Tesla is robo taxis down/mid-market, Lucid is striving to be the personal taxis and driver’s car.

 

[diplomat33]

Lucid reveals pricing:

Dream edition: $160k
Grand Touring edition: $130k
Touring: edition: $100k

Lucid Air prices revealed ahead of unveiling event