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Lucid Air Will Be Better Than Model S, Says Former Tesla Engineer

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by TMC Staff, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

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    Yeah this is a nice angle. Front is nice and clean.
     
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  2. phrank

    phrank Member

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    Really feel that overal design and interior materials used is where Tesla is lacking and just being behind with the latest trends from other manufacturers. The rest of their packaging and software is where they are still far ahead.
     
  3. ICUDoc

    ICUDoc Active Member

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    The Lucid Air looks excellent- the metrics they advertised are super-impressive: a 400m time of under 10s is nuts.
    What a great advantage they have had over Tesla, having the opportunity to copy all the good bits from the 2012 Model S, while also being able to ameliorate the bad bits eg the "foot garages" they have implemented. Tesla have stayed alive by making the Model 3, I wonder what Lucid will do?
    All that said: I can't wait for the Plaid version. Or the Roadster. Either one will do - just hurry up!
     
  4. Quamera

    Quamera Member

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    Oh dear, you want soft, cushy suspension with 1000HP and a sub 10 sec 1/4 mile, that's a recipe for disaster unless they have also developed a smart suspension that is firm when driven hard but soft if it senses more relaxed driving.
     
  5. PJFW8

    PJFW8 Red Menace may hurt me

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    I actually agree with you. Bottom line is Lucid is not really a direct competitor with Tesla. Lucid is in a true luxury class. But then again a pilot run of a few cars is not the same as production. My comment about Porsche and Audi have to do with the fact that their range is not competitive in the United States. They are certainly quite a bit behind in electric vehicle technology. On the other hand their vehicles are very well-built and very luxurious. I have had them both. But they have a lot to learn from Tesla about EV tech.
     
  6. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    A true luxury interior with 0-60 of 2.4 s and 1/4 mile of 9.9 s is going to eat true sports sedan sales as well.

    I can't imagine a car in this price class not having interior adjustable suspension.

    The big advantage for Model S is 5th door plus Supercharger/Service Network.

    Porsche will soon have a Taycan wagon(Cross Turismo).

    Lucid will first concentrate on Cities with large Tesla registrations.

    Los Angeles,San Jose, New York, Washington DC,Miami, Seattle,Houston and Dallas and when they get to Europe Oslo,Amsterdam and London.

    Here are there announced locations.

    • Silicon Valley Studio: Located at Lucid’s Global Headquarters in Newark, CA
    • Los Angeles Studios: Located at 9022 Wilshire Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA, and at Westfield Century City in Century City, CA
    • Los Angeles Service Center: Located at 9022 Wilshire Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA
    • San Jose Studio: Located at Westfield Valley Fair in San Jose, CA
    • Miami Studio: Located at Brickell City Centre in Miami, FL
    • West Palm Beach Studio: Located at Rosemary Square in West Palm Beach, FL
    • New York City Studio: Located in the Meatpacking District, NY
    • DC Metro Studio: Located at Tysons Corner Center in Tysons, VA
     
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  7. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    A $100k-$150k luxury sports sedan that can go 2.3 0-60 is a small market. The S sales have dwindled (as have nearly all sedan sales).

    The Dream trim of the Air is as much establishing brand as selling cas, similar to the Roadster and S. I think the Air will end up better than the S, but making superior EV isn’t being a Tesla killer.
     
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  8. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    No kidding. For a brand new automaker that might have 34k unit/year capacity the market is more than big enough.



    S has been on the market for over 8 years. Tesla has upgraded the drivetrain and tech but refuses to give S an exterior or interior refresh, aside from removing the nose cones many moons ago that should have never made production in the first place. Good design doesn't tell lies.

    Took away leather and alcantara interior. Took away cooled seats. Headlights and tail lights are ancient. Isn't it time S has articulating LED headlights? Brushed aluminum speaker covers?

    The top trim of the Toyota Camry has articulating LED headlights and has had them since 2018 model year.

    Anybody talking "Tesla Killer" as a serious concept is an idiot.

    Tesla's main business is selling $40k-$55k vehicles. And soon battery energy storage.

    But Model S remains the flagship. Still important for a Company that ideologically refuses to do paid advertising.

    The first car from an automaker always establishes the brand, for better or worse.
     
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  9. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    If they hit 15k/year of Air sales in the next few years it will be impressive imo. Sedans are a tough business right now.


    You talk about the S being a flagship, but as you pointed out, it lacks in many ways. I guess it’s telling that Tesla’s flagship is nearly all that way due to drivetrain and storage- Tesla’s future is more of an energy and Tech company than a manufacturer of elite EVs.
     
  10. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    There is more than enough demand for premium sedans for Tesla to sell 50k Model S per year AND Lucid to sell 34k Air per year.

    Tesla just has to update Model S.

    Flagship is not the bread and butter. In any Armada only 1 ship is the flagship.

    In world where Tesla is ideologically opposed to paid advertisement it is important that media is hyping how great Model S is and beating Taycan at Nurburgring etc etc.

    For Many the desire to buy a Model Yw/ FSD ,Powerwall, Solar Roof, and Wall Connector start with watching youtube vids of Model S beating a Ferrari at the drag strip.

    That is why Model S is important. Not for the direct profits from selling Model S.
     
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  11. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    #91 BlindPass, Sep 4, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
    You think in the next few years the Air and the S will combine to sell 80k? I’ll take that bet.

    No, Tesla doesn’t just need to update the S to hit 50k in sales. Price, EV adoption rates, and CUV as competition are issues. An update that comes with a price increase, will slow growth, as there just isn’t yet the demand for full sedans over $100k. At that price, buyers are increasingly preferring SUVs and CUVs.

    It needs more than an update, it needs Tesla to do something new they’ve never done- build a luxury car, which arguably goes against the ethos of Tesla (sustainability/Robo taxis, lean production, etc).
     
  12. PJFW8

    PJFW8 Red Menace may hurt me

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    What would Tesla gain competing in the high end luxury market? The only point of making the S originally was to finance the 3 and Y. The ultra-luxury market is always small and never mass-market. The tri-motor S will be a sport sedan not a Bentley. Lucid will compete primarily with Porsche not so much with Tesla. Having said this. Audi level interior quality would be an appropriate target in S's price class.
     
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  13. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    No one is talking ultra-luxury, but yes, Tesla will not be competing with Bentley.

    Call the class whatever you want, but the current S performance, and particularly the future tri-motor S, are competitors of the Air Dream and two of the Taycans, all of which are not high volume. Thus far Tesla has gotten by with being a premium car guised as a luxury car, but that’s unlikely to continue. As a successful “flagship”, they’ll need to improve the indulgences on the S, which really goes against what Tesla is about imo.
     
  14. PJFW8

    PJFW8 Red Menace may hurt me

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    #94 PJFW8, Sep 4, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
    I agree. I’m not totally sure of the value of a flagship for a company like Tesla. Even for Mercedes, does the S class sell any C class cars? I owned several Mercedes vehicles and never covered the S. Still, Tesla could use an aspirational vehicle If they want to continue to make cars.
     
  15. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    Good question. I think in previous generations, it may have. Before the proliferation of digital advertising, flagships were more effective at branding imo.

    I’ve never wanted a S-Class. Flagships on ICE for me usually meant the car being inferior in qualities I wanted as a driver. A little different with the MS vs M3. Although the M3 is more “fun“ to drive, the extra range and acceleration was worth it on the S.

    But if charging and range improves so that EVs are a large majority of car sales, the benefit of range is decreased. And If autonomous driving takes over like is in some Tesla projections, “fun to drive” things like handling and acceleration are also marginalized. You’ll have low volume “driver cars”, overpriced S-Class luxurious personal taxis that show the world you have money (some things never change), and spartan robo taxis fleets for most everyone else.
     
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  16. uujjj2

    uujjj2 Member

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    People's values are changing. In the US, Boomers think of cars as status symbols. The youngest generation thinks of cars as appliances. So the whole fancy luxury car market in the US is getting smaller over time.

    (This is not the case internationally.)
     
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  17. Altair7

    Altair7 Member

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    Exactly. From https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2019-year-auto-sales-2019/#:~:text=For%20the%20fourth%20consecutive%20year%2C%20auto%20sales%20still,total%20is%20about%20200%2C000%20shy%20of%202018%27s%20numbers.

    Bestselling Luxury/Premium Brands


    1. BMW - 324,826
    2. Mercedes-Benz - 316,094
    3. Lexus - 298,114
    4. Audi - 224,111
    5. Acura - 157,385
     
  18. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    #98 BlindPass, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
    Not exactly. You realize those figures are not just for $100k sedans?

    Yes, there’s a big market for luxury SUVs, CUVs, and cars much cheaper than the flagship sedans we’re discussing.
     
  19. BlindPass

    BlindPass Member

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    How Lucid Motors Plans to Spin Tesla-Killing Strategy Out of Air

    This article has the Air Dream edition at just over $160k after rebate. Kind of makes sense if it’s better EV technology than the current S (517 miles and better acceleration) plus an actual luxury trim.

    But if true, also a positive for Tesla Model S sales. Plaid could go up $40k, and still be more affordable.

    Imo this further cements the two companies coexistence. Tesla is robo taxis down/mid-market, Lucid is striving to be the personal taxis and driver’s car.
     
  20. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Well-Known Member

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    • Informative x 1
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