ludicrous P90D after delivery?

[jerjozwik]

so... last i heard on the P90D battery front was that the P90D and P90DL share the same physical battery. begs the question, could ludicrous mode be added on after delivery? i know it is not on the shopping page, pre-order P85D ludicrous mode is.

just curious what peoples thoughts are on this. while its feasible to get the whole shabang in one go, i could do some other things earlier with that extra 10k.

- - - Updated - - -

crap... wrong sub-thread mods please move to battery or order?

 

[mgboyes]

Don't know for sure but I'd bet yes you could have ludicrous enabled after delivery for a "software activation fee".

You can bet it would be more than $10k though.

 

[jpet]

so... last i heard on the P90D battery front was that the P90D and P90DL share the same physical battery.

I read too that the battery part numbers are the same but this will probably also be the case for a P85D and P85D. I'm not 100% sure that the same battery part number also means that the fuse and contactors are the same. Maybe they log the battery serial numbers somewhere so they know which batteries have the ludicrous hardware on-board?

If I'm not mistaken the design of the batteries has been updated to allow more easy access to the ludicrous parts. Maybe this is also in the light of being able to upgrade a P90D more easily to a P90D?

 

[JonG]

Don't know for sure but I'd bet yes you could have ludicrous enabled after delivery for a "software activation fee".

You can bet it would be more than $10k though.

its not a software only mod, it's a new fuse arrangement.

 

[sandpiper]

its not a software only mod, it's a new fuse arrangement.

The fuse is in the battery pack. If the battery pack has the same part number, it stands to reason that all P90Ds have the same upgraded contactor and fuse arrangement. So... I'm betting that it's just a software switch to turn on the the L. And $10K! I'm a bit curious if ALL of the 90s, might have the upgraded battery hardware. There's a cost associated with producing multiple different part numbers.

 

[wayner]

Reminiscent of high density floppy diskettes.

 

[Rafik]

All P90's have the same battery pack - a non-ludicrous car can be upgraded to ludicrous via software, though Tesla does not offer this after market. I know this is possible because my SC had a non ludicrous car which they upgraded to ludicrous via software for test driving purposes - no hardware changes were made.

 

[Ldub22]

Rafik,

Elon stated clearly that the mod was a fuse that could handle 1,500 Amps due to it being tied to a sensor that would allow it to actively blow instead of melting down. To say that it is a software only mod clearly implies that Elon intentionally lied for profit taking. This would really get him in a lot of hot water.

Do do you have any direct evidence of this? It appears to be speculation on your part. Based on what, exactly?

 

[Andyw2100]

Rafik,

Elon stated clearly that the mod was a fuse that could handle 1,500 Amps due to it being tied to a sensor that would allow it to actively blow instead of melting down. To say that it is a software only mod clearly implies that Elon intentionally lied for profit taking. This would really get him in a lot of hot water.

Do do you have any direct evidence of this? It appears to be speculation on your part. Based on what, exactly?

There has been evidence posted in other threads indicating that all the 90 batteries are the same. They all have the same part number. The same batteries are found in P90Ds with Ludicrous, P90Ds without Ludicrous, and I believe 90Ds.

The 85 batteries do not have the new fuse and contactors, and thus do require a hardware update.

Tesla is under no obligation to put the new fuse and contactors into non-Ludicrous 90s, and at some point there may be different batteries, with different part numbers, where some are Ludicrous-capable batteries and some are not. But right now, all the evidence indicates that the physical 90 batteries are the same, and have the updated hardware. So Rafik is correct that for a current P90D without Ludicrous, Ludicrous could be enabled via software.

I'll come back and edit this post with a link to the supporting thread.

Edit: Here's the thread-- P90D Insane Questions

 

[Rafik]

Rafik,

Elon stated clearly that the mod was a fuse that could handle 1,500 Amps due to it being tied to a sensor that would allow it to actively blow instead of melting down. To say that it is a software only mod clearly implies that Elon intentionally lied for profit taking. This would really get him in a lot of hot water.

Do do you have any direct evidence of this? It appears to be speculation on your part. Based on what, exactly?

You misunderstood.

The fuse and inconel components Elon referred to were implemented for the 90kwh battery packs. 85kwh cars do not have those parts. All P90 cars coming out of the factory have those parts, but the customer pays a premium to have the extra ludicrous capability (10k) activated. P90D insane -> P90D ludicrous is a software upgrade (not explicitly offered by TM). P85D insane -> P85D ludicrous is a hardware upgrade.

I know this is in fact true because my SC had a P90D which I was going to test drive a month or so ago - but I was disappointed to find out it only had insane mode, not ludicrous. A week or so later, my SC informed they upgraded the car to ludicrous - same exact car. They stated the car threw some faults with the software upgrade initially, but was fully upgraded to ludicrous without any hardware changes. They explicitly told me the battery packs and components in both cars are the same.

 

[MikeBur]

So here's my dumb question of the day ;-)

it's 3k to upgrade 85 to 90 battery before purchase. What's the expected cost / feasibility of doing the same on current 85 batteries? I seems ludicrous (overloaded term purposely intended) to pay 30k for complete new battery and no consideration of existing battery...

just thinking out loud as I believe those additional 5KW might be useful for freeway driving performance?

 

[Andyw2100]

So here's my dumb question of the day ;-)

it's 3k to upgrade 85 to 90 battery before purchase. What's the expected cost / feasibility of doing the same on current 85 batteries? I seems ludicrous (overloaded term purposely intended) to pay 30k for complete new battery and no consideration of existing battery...

just thinking out loud as I believe those additional 5KW might be useful for freeway driving performance?

The figures have been posted in other threads.

$25,000 to upgrade, and in theory that should let you keep your 85, though many have been told that's not an option. There is a $2500 core value on your 85, so the real cost would be $22,500 if you swap in your 85, as some are being told you must do.

 

[urbanscribe]

Since Tesla is now offering the 90D to 90DL upgrade, are we still sure that the upgrade is software only?

the wording on the store upgrade product page is vague enough and does not mention hardware specifically?

 

[Andyw2100]

Since Tesla is now offering the 90D to 90DL upgrade, are we still sure that the upgrade is software only?

the wording on the store upgrade product page is vague enough and does not mention hardware specifically?

As far as we know it is essentially software only.

I say essentially because you do get the little underline added to the P90D logo, and that is hardware. (People getting the P85D upgrade actually have reported seeing that priced out separately on the invoice. I don't recall the exact figure, but I think it was in the $5 range.)

 

[urbanscribe]

if software only my conclusion (and rationalization as a P90D non L owner obviously) remains:

1. won't notice the L 30-60 after a while (totally subjective).
2. will hurt my range. live in northeast so that matter 6 months of the year.
3. i already have all the hardware in the car so have mechanicals which are over-rated vs. current performance so more likely to handle performance/wear. in other words if my contractor can handle 1500A then 1300A even more in range.
4. resale value TO TESLA in a trade-in should always be influenced by their ability to - at $5 cost - add $10K (- dep) value instantly to the car. obviously not available to third parties.

that was the bet going in and seems still valid from what i see after 10K L upgrade store listing + discussion.

btw, Tesla, if the hardware had been specifically explained to be different between P90D and DL at the time (august for me) i probably would have gone for the DL (only option i did not get). but spending 10K for a dip switch change triggered a neurosis for me i like the idea of having all the hardware and not missing the bragging rights.

 

[Andyw2100]

if software only my conclusion (and rationalization as a P90D non L owner obviously) remains:

1. won't notice the L 30-60 after a while (totally subjective).
2. will hurt my range. live in northeast so that matter 6 months of the year.
3. i already have all the hardware in the car so have mechanicals which are over-rated vs. current performance so more likely to handle performance/wear. in other words if my contractor can handle 1500A then 1300A even more in range.
4. resale value TO TESLA in a trade-in should always be influenced by their ability to - at $5 cost - add $10K (- dep) value instantly to the car. obviously not available to third parties.

that was the bet going in and seems still valid from what i see after 10K L upgrade store listing + discussion.

btw, Tesla, if the hardware had been specifically explained to be different between P90D and DL at the time (august for me) i probably would have gone for the DL (only option i did not get). but spending 10K for a dip switch change triggered a neurosis for me i like the idea of having all the hardware and not missing the bragging rights.

The only flaw I see in your analysis is your item 2. The Ludicrous upgrade should not impact your range at all, unless you actually use it. Driving as if you didn't have the upgrade should result in the same efficiency numbers.

Now if what you were saying is that if you had the upgrade, you wouldn't be able to control yourself, that's a different story!

 

[sorka]

The only flaw I see in your analysis is your item 2. The Ludicrous upgrade should not impact your range at all, unless you actually use it. Driving as if you didn't have the upgrade should result in the same efficiency numbers.

Now if what you were saying is that if you had the upgrade, you wouldn't be able to control yourself, that's a different story!

...or answer B: I use Ludicrous frequently and it still doesn't impact my range compared to Insane.

 

[tstafford]

...or answer B: I use Ludicrous frequently and it still doesn't impact my range compared to Insane.

Me too. I haven't done any statistical analysis, but my general perception is that my range is the same post-ludicrous.