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Lug Nuts

Discussion in 'Model S' started by GregKo, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    Does anyone know the exact specifications for the P100D S (new front as I hear its different from the original front) and / or X lug nuts? Looking at at aftermarket options but no-one at Tesla will offer exact specifications. They recommend Tesla's lug nuts...

    IE What will I need to be sure of before ordering lug nuts?

    Thanks
     
  2. Snerruc

    Snerruc Member

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    There are a couple of threads on this if you search the site. Most seem to get the. Gorilla lugs in the correct size on Amazon.
     
  3. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    I cannot say for sure for the P100D, as it is too new. However, all other Model S have used:

    - 14 x 1.5 mm studs and lug nuts
    - 60 deg. cone face seats
    - 129 ft-lbs torque
    - The stud protrudes approximately 16-17 mm into the lug nut with the stock wheels when the lug nuts are torqued to 129 ft-lbs

    The stock lug nuts are:

    - 21 mm hex socket
    - use a steel cap that can deform


    Aftermarket replacement lug nuts are:

    - Gorilla 61147CX (chrome) [13/16" socket]
    - McGard 64073 (chrome) / 64074 (black) [22 mm socket]

    Both of these are nickel and/or chrome plated, and do not have the steel cap like the Tesla lug nuts.


    Available wheel locks are:

    - Tesla 1023981-00-A (chrome) / 1023981-01-A (black) -- manufactured by McGard [21 mm socket]
    - McGard 24215 (chrome) / 24216 (black) [13/16" / 22 mm dual socket]
    - Gorilla Guard 61641 (chrome) [13/16" socket]
    - Gorilla X2 71641X (chrome) [13/16" socket]

    I have also posted a lot of information on wheel locks in this thread.
     
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  4. Plug it in

    Plug it in Member

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  5. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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  6. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    Will they fit? Probably. But I can't recommend them.

    These are titanium, which has a great tensile strength and toughness. However, you will be threading it onto a steel stud. Under compression, the steel and titanium threads will "stick" to each other and result in galling (stripping of the threads). Thus, you must lubricate the stud threads with an anti-seize compound before threading these on.

    The complication this causes is that the anti-seize compound on the threads reduces friction, which changes the proper torque value for these lug nuts. Under normal conditions, what you're trying to do when you tighten lug nuts is to elastically stretch the steel studs to a certain stress/strain value. Since it is difficult to impossible to measure stress/strain on the studs directly, auto manufacturers instead specify a torque value. This torque value will result in the proper stress/strain on the studs so long as the other factors like friction and cone seat surface area are the same.

    But now that we've added anti-seize compound, the friction has dropped, so if you torque the lubricated studs & nuts to 129 ft-lbs, this will OVER-stress the studs.

    What you will have to do is estimate the stress using the total turns method:

    1. Mount a stock Tesla wheel using Tesla stock lug nuts, torque them all to 129 ft-lbs with no anti-seize compound.
    2. Once they're torqued, remove one lug nut.
    3. Thread that Tesla lug nut back onto the stud by hand until it seats with just finger-force.
    4. Now use a torque wrench and determine how many turns it takes to get to 129 ft-lbs. This is the total number of turns to stress the stud to the proper value.
    5. Remove all lug nuts and remove the wheel.
    6. Apply a very thin coat of anti-seize lubricant to the threads of each stud.
    7. Mount YOUR wheel and these titanium lug nuts, tighten them down finger-tight, make sure the wheel is all the way back on the hub mounting ring.
    8. Torque all the lug nuts to the same number of turns you discovered in step 4, regardless of the torque value. This will stretch the stud to the same stress/strain as the Tesla lug nuts. Expect the torque value to be lower.
    9. Record that torque value for future reference, and you can then probably tighten these lug nuts using that torque value rather than counting turns.

    This is a complicated procedure, prone to significant error, and can easily cause damage to your studs, hubs, rotors, etc. I cannot recommend it.
     
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  7. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    Amazing post! These guys claim a lower weight lug nut. Do you recommend another lug nut with lower weight that is not so complicated instal?

    Greg
     
  8. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Grouchy

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    Not to hijack your thread but my current P85D with the grey 21" Tesla wheels uses silver lug nuts with black plastic caps on them. When I swap to my winter tires (the Tesla OEM 19" wheels) I use the same lug nuts but do not put the black plastic caps on. Perfect.

    I am waiting on my new Tesla with the same 21" grey Tesla wheels but looking around the forums it looks like the grey wheels now come with black (painted?) lug nuts.

    Am I correct in this assumption?

    Mike
     
  9. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    I find the plastic caps tend to fall off. Do you recommend a cap that stays on?
     
  10. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Grouchy

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    I've never had one fall off so I haven't looked in to anything else.

    Mike
     
  11. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    The weight savings on the lug nuts is really small by comparison to tires and wheels. The titanium lug nuts are 21.5 g each, which is about 60% of the weight of steel lug nuts. The net savings for 5 of these lug nuts on the wheel is about 3-4 ounces. Your wheel balance weights are probably more than this.

    If wheel/tire weight is that important, I would simply use the McGard 64073 or 64074 lug nuts, and then use forged wheels and lighter weight tires, and remove the TPMS modules. (Note: You will get a continuous warning message on the dash with the TPMS modules removed, so use this wheel set only for the track).
     
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  12. GregKo

    GregKo Member

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    I went with your recommendation. Thank you for all of this detailed info. If you find yourself up in NJ, let me know, I'll buy you a beer (of coffee) :)

    Greg
     
  13. mrjedistud

    mrjedistud Member

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    Hey Mike. I just put 19 winters (slipstream rim) on. I had 21 summers previously. The SC used the same lug nuts but now the lug nuts stick out more than they did on the 21. Did you experience this too?
     
  14. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Grouchy

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    #14 NOLA_Mike, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    I haven't put mine on yet - I've stayed in South Louisiana all winter so far. :)

    But, I plan on putting them on later this week and heading NW.

    What I have found different so far is that Tesla is no longer using "capped" lug nuts (nuts that have a chrome cap on them) and thus I had to buy some covers for them when the silver wheels are put back on. My winters are on the original Tesla 19" wheels:

    IMG_0041.jpg

    Here is what my lug nuts look like now:

    IMG_0266.jpg

    So I bought a set of lug caps off Amazon for $12 each (I bought chrome and smoke chrome to see which one I liked better in person):

    IMG_0275.jpg

    My 21" wheels also came in the staggered setup from Tesla (wider rims in back) and I find that the caps stick out further on the narrower front wheels and are recessed more on the wider back wheels. So, I expect they will stick out a little more on the 19" wheels.

    Mike
     
  15. mrjedistud

    mrjedistud Member

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    My nonstaggered 21s look just like yours. Once you put the 19s on let me know. I'm curious if its just me or all cars. Thanks for the response.
     
  16. ThisIsTrue

    ThisIsTrue Dismember

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    Post an Amazon link, please? I'm not finding them, and I'm usually pretty good at searching....

    Thanks!
     
  17. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Grouchy

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  18. ThisIsTrue

    ThisIsTrue Dismember

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  19. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Grouchy

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    I put my 19" wheels on today. I used the same lug nuts as was on my 21" staggered wheels and the new caps I bought (see above). For me, the caps are more recessed in the wheel than the OEM black caps.

    IMG_0306.jpg IMG_0307.jpg
     
  20. mrjedistud

    mrjedistud Member

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    NOLA-Now I understand. It looks like without the plastic caps you have just bare nuts screwed into the studs (I know it sounds funny). My lug nuts had steel caps on them in addition to the plastic caps. I guess that's why mine seem to stick out so much.
     

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