M3 in Yukon at -39°C

[felixculpas]

If I was leaving, pre-heated from my garage, I wouldn't be concerned with any temp. You just want to avoid leaving it unplugged at extreme temps for any length of time.

From the manual:

Temperature Limits
For better long-term performance, avoid
exposing Model 3 to ambient temperatures
above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C)
for more than 24 hours at a time.

 

[ricohman]

The seat heaters are great, so I'm often happy with the heater off in our winter temperatures, but we're not usually too far below freezing.

-30 (F or C) though? I don't think I've ever experienced that level of cold! I'm sure it builds character...

I like seat heaters.
But running on the highway at -30 without defrost heat you can't see anything.

 

[voip-ninja]

The seat heaters are great, so I'm often happy with the heater off in our winter temperatures, but we're not usually too far below freezing.

-30 (F or C) though? I don't think I've ever experienced that level of cold! I'm sure it builds character...

I have experienced this level of cold quite a few times when I lived in a low valley in northern new england very close to the canadian border. Cold air would sink in and the cold was absolutely ball busting.

There is no way in hell I'd be okay with driving around without heat.

Model 3 is marketed as a luxury car, Tesla should have put in a heat pump so that running the HVAC in cold weather was less of a drag on the battery.

 

[Skione65]

Took my Model 3 Performance for a drive last weekend. The temperature was -31 when I set out and warmed up to -26 by the end of my 80-mile trip. This involved a mixture of city, highway and country road driving (65mph on the highway, country roads were mostly snow and ice with a limit of 50mph). The heater was on for half the trip and the seat heater on all the way. Started with an 80% charge, preheated. My car lives outside year round. By the end I had used 342 Wh/mile or 211 Wh/km. With proper battery pre-heating, I don't see any problem driving in -30 weather.

@Jaguar,

What was your charge level/range upon arrival?

Ski

 

[StealthP3D]

There is no way in hell I'd be okay with driving around without heat.

If I'm already dressed for the weather and doing physical activity, I'm often too warm by the time I get to my car. When I'm done snow skiing I don't want heat beyond the seat heaters unless it's a really long drive and my metabolism has time to chill out. In these cases I often just have the air set to the windshield. I've noticed the cabin of the Model 3 is VERY well sealed from even tiny drafts which is nice when it's cold out. As long as I'm dressed for the climate, I don't want a lot of heat. And keeping the windows clear is more a matter of having air directed at them, even if it's cool air. Unless it's 99% humidity, then I need some heated or dehumidified air.

But Jaguar only had his heat off for half the trip. Some people have weaker metabolisms and get cold easily, they will want the heat on the whole time. It's really a matter of personal preference. I know that I don't like rooms or cars that are artificially heated too warm. Other people think they're going to die if it's not 72 degrees everywhere they go. I cut firewood in a t-shirt when its 25 degrees F. Everone's different. We rent our 1 bedroom beachfront condo on Kauai out for $425/night. It has no air conditioning and no heater. It's whatever temperature the ambient is. Most people think it's great. Others have trouble staying warm during cool periods or at night or getting too hot when it's extra warm. I'm not going to get a space heater to please them, we will just rent to people who can self-regulate. We have a full booking calendar.

 

[coleAK]

Took my Model 3 Performance for a drive last weekend. The temperature was -31 when I set out and warmed up to -26 by the end of my 80-mile trip. This involved a mixture of city, highway and country road driving (65mph on the highway, country roads were mostly snow and ice with a limit of 50mph). The heater was on for half the trip and the seat heater on all the way. Started with an 80% charge, preheated. My car lives outside year round. By the end I had used 342 Wh/mile or 211 Wh/km. With proper battery pre-heating, I don't see any problem driving in -30 weather.

I’m calling no way you can drive at those temps without the heat on all the time. Not possible unless: 1. The inside of the car was also -26 so humidity won’t condense on the warmer side of the glass. 2. You brought absolutely no snow in on your shoes to evaporate into the air. 3. You had on a re breather so you weren’t exhailing moisture in the air. You may have not had the defroster icon on but heat was on. There is no way the climate control was off and you were driving in those conditions. No way. But those efficiency numbers are similar to what I’m getting on longer trips in the winter.

Because at those temps without warm air blowing on the glass the inside of the glass would freeze solid and you wouldn’t be able to see.

 

[StealthP3D]

Because at those temps without warm air blowing on the glass the inside of the glass would freeze solid and you wouldn’t be able to see.

Totally possible as long as the frost point (basically the dew point when it's below freezing) is below the current temperature. That's relatively common under cold/dry conditions. This assumes the climate control was set to low and some outside air was flowing over the windshield.

Another way this is possible it to only use the heat half the time (turn on the heat when the window wants to start frosting and turn it off when it's clear). And Jaguar said he used the heat half the time.

In my humble opinion, no reason to call him a liar when he hasn't said anything that is unlikely.

 

[StealthP3D]

I'm loving this car in the winter, the nicest feature is the instant heat that doesn't have to wait for the engine block and gallons of coolant to heat up before it provides a nice blast of warm air. Or maybe it's the winter driving dynamics. I don't know, this is simply the best car I've ever owned in the winter (and I've had a lot of good ski cars).

 

[coleAK]

Totally possible as long as the frost point (basically the dew point when it's below freezing) is below the current temperature. That's relatively common under cold/dry conditions. This assumes the climate control was set to low and some outside air was flowing over the windshield.

Another way this is possible it to only use the heat half the time (turn on the heat when the window wants to start frosting and turn it off when it's clear). And Jaguar said he used the heat half the time.

In my humble opinion, no reason to call him a liar when he hasn't said anything that is unlikely.

First off. You can drive around in an ICE with the heat “off” as your still getting heat from the engine blowing through while driving. That doesn’t happen in an EV. And At -20F and no insulation in the roof heat loss is fast and freezing is instantaneous.

I’m not calling him a list I’m just saying the defroster May have been off but no way the heat was off.

 

[ricohman]

First off. You can drive around in an ICE with the heat “off” as your still getting heat from the engine blowing through while driving. That doesn’t happen in an EV. And At -20F and no insulation in the roof heat loss is fast and freezing is instantaneous.

I’m not calling him a list I’m just saying the defroster May have been off but no way the heat was off.

It's impossible to drive at -30 with no heat on defrost.
You wouldn't be able to see.
Maybe if you were only driving for a minute or two but any extended highway travel you would be driving blind. Every breath exhaled would coat all the windows.
My floor mats are frozen globs of ice right now so not much water vapor coming from there.

 

[StealthP3D]

First off. You can drive around in an ICE with the heat “off” as your still getting heat from the engine blowing through while driving. That doesn’t happen in an EV. And At -20F and no insulation in the roof heat loss is fast and freezing is instantaneous.

I’m not calling him a list I’m just saying the defroster May have been off but no way the heat was off.

You missed the physics lesson. If the frost point of the air blowing on the windshield is below the temperature of the windshield, no ice will form. It's all about humidity. The heater doesn't need to be on to blow outside air across the inside of the windshield.

Do you understand frost point (same concept as dew point)?

 

[StealthP3D]

It's impossible to drive at -30 with no heat on defrost.
You wouldn't be able to see.
Maybe if you were only driving for a minute or two but any extended highway travel you would be driving blind. Every breath exhaled would coat all the windows.
My floor mats are frozen globs of ice right now so not much water vapor coming from there.

What you're missing is you can run the air without the heat. This can keep your breath off the windshield. When running the air through the windshield vent it forms a curtain of air and breath moisture is carried out and away, through the rear cabin vents.

You need a low humidity for this to work but arctic air is often cold and dry. I definitely wouldn't call someone a liar over that.

 

[ricohman]

What you're missing is you can run the air without the heat. This can keep your breath off the windshield. When running the air through the windshield vent it forms a curtain of air and breath moisture is carried out and away, through the rear cabin vents.

You need a low humidity for this to work but arctic air is often cold and dry.

I realize that.
It's impossible at -30.
The only way you can do this is drive with the windows open. I've actually done this a few times when heater motors failed. And even then the windows eventually get coated and you have to scrape the inside. And I live in a very dry place.
It was -46 here today. I will drain the battery dry to have a heated cabin and I will plan my trips around that.

 

[coleAK]

You missed the physics lesson. If the frost point of the air blowing on the windshield is below the temperature of the windshield, no ice will form. It's all about humidity. The heater doesn't need to be on to blow outside air across the inside of the windshield.

Do you understand frost point (same concept as dew point)?

Yes I understand that fully. But we aren’t talking +20F. And people add a ton of humidity to the cabin, as does snow melt from shoes.

At -20, -30F, or colder - water freezes instantly, boiling water freezes in seconds, frost bite occurs in seconds, ...
And you don’t need to teach me physics. They did that at UC Davis college of engineering.

 

[StealthP3D]

Yes I understand that fully. But we aren’t talking +20F. And people add a ton of humidity to the cabin, as does snow melt from shoes.

There is no snowmelt from shoes if it's -30C and you don't have the heat on. And you are ignoring that the fan can keep the windshield clear in dry conditions and simultaneously carry away breath moisture to exit out of the rear vents. It makes me wonder if you've ever driven in inland arctic air.

 

[Sealander]

Model 3 is marketed as a luxury car, Tesla should have put in a heat pump so that running the HVAC in cold weather was less of a drag on the battery.

Good luck running a heat pump in those temperatures and recovering any heat from the outside. Not going to happen.

 

[ricohman]

There is no snowmelt from shoes if it's -30C and you don't have the heat on. And you are ignoring that the fan can keep the windshield clear in dry conditions and simultaneously carry away breath moisture to exit out of the rear vents. It makes me wonder if you've ever driven in inland arctic air.

Tomorrow it will be -44 here. There is absolutely zero chance of the windows not fogging in any vehicle without heat.
There only possible way is if the car has no occupants.

 

[Jaguar]

@Jaguar,

What was your charge level/range upon arrival?

Ski

I started at 80% charge and finshed with 54% left. I used 26 KWH to go 80 miles, which means a full battery range (at close to -30) of around 220 miles. (Note, this is the Performance version so you'd probably get better results in an MR)

As for using the heater, I ran it full blast at the beginning, getting the cabin rather too hot, so I turned it off. After that, I only ran the heat when it started to get cold and then only for brief blasts to take the edge off. I wasn't cold (but, then again, I'm used to it). The car is well insulated and the seat heaters work very well. The windshield did not fog up at all. It was a dry day (humidity at -30 is practically nil anyway) and I made sure air re-circulation was switched off so that dry air would enter the cabin whenever I used the heater.

Running the heater did suck up energy very quickly-- immediately noticeable on the gauges.

 

[Jaguar]

I’m calling no way you can drive at those temps without the heat on all the time. Not possible unless: 1. The inside of the car was also -26 so humidity won’t condense on the warmer side of the glass. 2. You brought absolutely no snow in on your shoes to evaporate into the air. 3. You had on a re breather so you weren’t exhailing moisture in the air. You may have not had the defroster icon on but heat was on. There is no way the climate control was off and you were driving in those conditions. No way. But those efficiency numbers are similar to what I’m getting on longer trips in the winter.

Because at those temps without warm air blowing on the glass the inside of the glass would freeze solid and you wouldn’t be able to see.

Alright, you got me. I held my breath for 80 miles.

 

[StealthP3D]

I get a kick out of people saying what you CAN'T do with a Model 3 - especially when you've already done exactly that!

It'll never work, we might as well just throw our hands up and realize how inferior EV's are.

Meanwhile, thousands of people are doing the impossible while the experts pontificate about how it can't be done.