You should also note that the tire width will affect the diameter as well. A 265/35-19 is the same overall diameter as a 235/40-19 for instance.
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M3 issue in the Colorado Mountains
- Thread starter spinbackwards
- Start date
Hi Spinbackwards,
I live in SW Colorado near Telluride and have driven my M3 AWD on all sorts of snow covered and polished ice roads over the last month or so, and I have to say I agree with you the current M3 AWD implementation is terrible, especially the rear end fish tailing easily even in chill mode. Regen braking is another issue even in low mode. low is an improvement on snow covered roads but still an issue on polished ice. It seems to me that the rear motor does most of the work to push the car and the most of the regen braking which in both cases results in the unstable rear wheel traction. I have suggested to Tesla a more synchronized division of torque (both thrust and braking) between the front and rear motors which should be a SW update. (I have not received a reply yet) Or perhaps a snow/ice driving mode that improves the division of torque. Tesla is very capable on optimizing the driving dynamics since my MX is the best on snow/ice as compared to my 4Runner, Landcruiser, Outback, Audi quattro.
I live in SW Colorado near Telluride and have driven my M3 AWD on all sorts of snow covered and polished ice roads over the last month or so, and I have to say I agree with you the current M3 AWD implementation is terrible, especially the rear end fish tailing easily even in chill mode. Regen braking is another issue even in low mode. low is an improvement on snow covered roads but still an issue on polished ice. It seems to me that the rear motor does most of the work to push the car and the most of the regen braking which in both cases results in the unstable rear wheel traction. I have suggested to Tesla a more synchronized division of torque (both thrust and braking) between the front and rear motors which should be a SW update. (I have not received a reply yet) Or perhaps a snow/ice driving mode that improves the division of torque. Tesla is very capable on optimizing the driving dynamics since my MX is the best on snow/ice as compared to my 4Runner, Landcruiser, Outback, Audi quattro.
I can confirm this exactly. Dual motor with the 18" Sottozero II's on it and it's a dream in all kinds of conditions here in Colorado.
You and StealthP3D seem to have a very different experience on snow and ice from myself, SanJuan and silentcorp. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe there is something broken in our traction control systems; the difference seems to be quite dramatic.
My car in standard mode is far less stable and controllable on snow and ice than MadHungariean's appears to be in Track mode, let alone standard mode.
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silentcorp
Member
So softer power that leads to the tail slipping out less... yup matches my experience exactly and probably is why most suggest chill mode in snow.
I'm not saying it never slips, but it's a controlled slip (I use low regen and chill when it's nasty outside). The car seems very sure footed to me. I'm sure truly icy conditions would suck, as these tires are performance snows not chunky snows, but so far they've performed admirably (we took it on a road trip over the Rockies to UT and encountered snow, ice, slush and below zero temps and it was a great drive).
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Mine works like Mad Hungarian's M3 in Standard Mode.
It's the first car with electronic driver aids that don't kill your momentum right when you need it most and that's why I'm happy with Performance Winter Radials in winter driving conditions that I think anyone would rate as atrocious. The car can be in a continuously controlled slip (from acceleration, deceleration and cornering) and yet it never feels disabled or like you are about to lose control. It's magical.It was an interesting day in my neighborhood today. We had the perfect weather to turn all the roads into skating rinks. I had to pick up my son from school which is about 7 miles from our house. It took me an hour and ten minutes to get there due to all the cars blocking the roads and in the ditches alongside the roads. In just 7 miles, I probably saw about 100 cars that had slid off the road, and more than that on the road but unable to move. In 12 years of living here, this is the worst conditions I've seen. More than 3/4 of all cars simply weren't able to make progress on the uphills, couldn't turn, and had little to no control on downhills. I saw multiple cars slide off the road with all wheels either locked up or trying to lock up with their ABS systems intervening. Twice I had to dodge cars that were sliding towards me basically out of control at less than 5 MPH. The only cars able to make it through were AWD or 4WD vehicles with winter tires on them. For a couple of hours, all of the bigger roads were closed off by the police as they towed or moved cars out of the way so that the snow plows could get through to plow and sand the roads.
My Model 3 maneuvered through all of it superbly. The only time I had any major slip was trying to stop on a downhill at one point where I slid for about 30 feet trying to stop from about 4 or 5 MPH. I think the ABS system actually locks the brakes up below a certain speed. The road was blocked in front of me, but I was able to back up the hill about 100' to an intersection and turn on to another street which got me around the blockage. I was taking all the little side roads since the main roads were all shut down, and there were cars off the road or stuck unable to move everywhere. A couple of times I got out to help push cars out of the middle of the road so that I and the others that were still able to move could get through. In some places, the snow had piled up a bit to about 10", but the Model 3 pushed right through. Overall, I am very impressed with the Model 3's snow and ice capabilities on the Pirelli Sottozero 3s. I still don't like the way the system engages in slippery conditions, but chill model with low regen and a very gentle foot on the throttle and brakes ameliorates that to a great degree. There is no denying the system's effectiveness however in keeping the car moving, and under control, in truly horrid conditions.
My Model 3 maneuvered through all of it superbly. The only time I had any major slip was trying to stop on a downhill at one point where I slid for about 30 feet trying to stop from about 4 or 5 MPH. I think the ABS system actually locks the brakes up below a certain speed. The road was blocked in front of me, but I was able to back up the hill about 100' to an intersection and turn on to another street which got me around the blockage. I was taking all the little side roads since the main roads were all shut down, and there were cars off the road or stuck unable to move everywhere. A couple of times I got out to help push cars out of the middle of the road so that I and the others that were still able to move could get through. In some places, the snow had piled up a bit to about 10", but the Model 3 pushed right through. Overall, I am very impressed with the Model 3's snow and ice capabilities on the Pirelli Sottozero 3s. I still don't like the way the system engages in slippery conditions, but chill model with low regen and a very gentle foot on the throttle and brakes ameliorates that to a great degree. There is no denying the system's effectiveness however in keeping the car moving, and under control, in truly horrid conditions.
silentcorp
Member
My wife took the car to get dinner today and was slipping/sliding all over the place. It was real bad tonight here in CO for sure. I was at Winter Park today and 40 was not great. I slipped a little on some black ice but the car made the right corrections. I still don't feel totally solid in it, I'm having the service center just check over my traction control system to make sure there isn't something wrong.
Howdy,
I keep seeing videos such as these:
Watch Tesla Model 3 AWD On Snowy Incline With Stock Tires
Someone takes a video of a snapshot in time, then wants the world to believe it applies to 100% of the time.
Or, someone drives around in the city a little when it's snowy then claims the car works great in the winter.
I've received one private message echoing what I wrote about. This thread has posts from people in CO, who have concerns. A rep at the Littleton SC told me, "you're not the first one to bring this up".
The car is definitely better with my 18" setup. But I had to spend $3k to get what Tesla promised to me in their advertising. Tesla doesn't put an asterisk by their claims *you'll need different wheels and tires to achieve what we're advertising.
Tesla should come up here to the mountains, drive their cars in real world conditions. They'd see for themselves, that they're making claims that aren't true.
This all feeds into the world we've created.
Some random guy, with no picture, a cryptic username, and no verification he/she/it even owns a Tesla writes something on the Internet and people believe it. Has anyone looked on Fred's site? The comments are mostly cats who own Pintos!
Not only that, their comments feed into this bizarre system where random comments, by random people, are now what people base their decisions on.
Or, we're asked to "rate" some good, product, or service before we even open the package. The restaurant wants us to rate their meal before it's been digested. Someone drives a few feet, makes a video, and pronounces that the car is great for winter. Tesla sends me feedback email to rate the service that was just done an hour ago.
Or, we're not holding companies feet to the fire. We accept that "it's just how it is".
It's shocking, that people have mistaken the zombie culture that we live in for progress.
Yikes.
Peace and love,
I keep seeing videos such as these:
Watch Tesla Model 3 AWD On Snowy Incline With Stock Tires
Someone takes a video of a snapshot in time, then wants the world to believe it applies to 100% of the time.
Or, someone drives around in the city a little when it's snowy then claims the car works great in the winter.
I've received one private message echoing what I wrote about. This thread has posts from people in CO, who have concerns. A rep at the Littleton SC told me, "you're not the first one to bring this up".
The car is definitely better with my 18" setup. But I had to spend $3k to get what Tesla promised to me in their advertising. Tesla doesn't put an asterisk by their claims *you'll need different wheels and tires to achieve what we're advertising.
Tesla should come up here to the mountains, drive their cars in real world conditions. They'd see for themselves, that they're making claims that aren't true.
This all feeds into the world we've created.
Some random guy, with no picture, a cryptic username, and no verification he/she/it even owns a Tesla writes something on the Internet and people believe it. Has anyone looked on Fred's site? The comments are mostly cats who own Pintos!
Not only that, their comments feed into this bizarre system where random comments, by random people, are now what people base their decisions on.
Or, we're asked to "rate" some good, product, or service before we even open the package. The restaurant wants us to rate their meal before it's been digested. Someone drives a few feet, makes a video, and pronounces that the car is great for winter. Tesla sends me feedback email to rate the service that was just done an hour ago.
Or, we're not holding companies feet to the fire. We accept that "it's just how it is".
It's shocking, that people have mistaken the zombie culture that we live in for progress.
Yikes.
Peace and love,
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
What the heck are you talking about? The AWD Model 3 goes like a bat outta hell in mountain snowstorms and climbs icy hills with the best of them. I particularly like the driver feedback that constantly lets me know exactly what my tires are doing at all times.
What are these false claims by Tesla that you're talking about?
I think Tesla needs to create "Snow Mode" AWD driving mode and make it easy to activate "Snow Mode". Snow Mode would have power going 50-50 to front/rear, limit regenerative braking, limit acceleration, and perhaps some other features. The car can ask to go in "Snow Mode" when starting to drive if outside temps are below 40 degrees? You can easily get outside temps from the car location.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The problem is there is no "one size fits all". Some people like to leave regen on "Standard" because one pedal driving is great for hustling around snowy corners and I also don't like "Chill" acceleration mode because it makes me feel disconnected from the throttle. In the snow you don't want power divided equal front to back, at least not most of the time. The car automatically shifts the power front/back as needed. Under strong acceleration it will apply more power to the rear wheels because that is where the weight transfers.
While I can see the utility of this for some people, it would also clutter up the user interface and make it one menu item more complicated to check settings.
silentcorp
Member
Super slippery this morning here in CO. My car's back end was slipping out on almost all turns, traction control kicked in but it was always a second or two later than I would expect. I watched a Honda Civic have no problem going up a slight incline where mine was fish tailing. I booked a SC appointment next week, after reading through all these posts there simply must be something wrong with my TC system.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Yes, you might have something wrong with your electronic aids (buut I would think that would throw an error). You're tire pressure might be too low. What's your cold PSI?
I've been running 46 PSI (cold) in the Pirelli Sottozero's and have had great snow/ice traction, even when it's super sketchy and other cars are giving up.
silentcorp
Member
There seems to be a ridiculous disconnect between people saying this is amazing and others saying it slips a bunch.
For the Coloradans I’d be curious what tires they have and whether they ever apply the tire chains (I do!).
I have done great in winter in alpine conditions in more often more difficult terrain than Colorado. My climate often freezes and thaws and refreezes much more than in Colorado. I am a lifetime rocky mtn resident.
I get along fine with the stock Michelin’s. Yup. Didn’t even buy the sottozeros. I have the chains for difficult situations. My other cars are awd cars such as a 4Runner and an XC90. I have previously been stuck completely in those cars requiring trucks to pull me out or having to turn around going up a hill where I simply could not move. This has never occurred w the model 3.
However I have experienced the back end slipping out. It is a short very uncomfortable feeling. It has happened once only in the nastiest freeze thaw freeze w new rain on that. It required me to continue on driving in a very immaculate and delicate style. I have not experienced it with the regen but I drive very slowly and sensibly. I let idiot ice drivers go around me. I pull over. This car has insane torque and with ice on the road it’s too much if you let it be too much.
My style of winter driving makes it 10x better than my old ice cars. Last year alone w all seasons I had two separate slide and body damage incidents in my 4runner.
I do like the idea of a chill mode cousin of ice mode. I am confident we will see that.
For the Coloradans I’d be curious what tires they have and whether they ever apply the tire chains (I do!).
I have done great in winter in alpine conditions in more often more difficult terrain than Colorado. My climate often freezes and thaws and refreezes much more than in Colorado. I am a lifetime rocky mtn resident.
I get along fine with the stock Michelin’s. Yup. Didn’t even buy the sottozeros. I have the chains for difficult situations. My other cars are awd cars such as a 4Runner and an XC90. I have previously been stuck completely in those cars requiring trucks to pull me out or having to turn around going up a hill where I simply could not move. This has never occurred w the model 3.
However I have experienced the back end slipping out. It is a short very uncomfortable feeling. It has happened once only in the nastiest freeze thaw freeze w new rain on that. It required me to continue on driving in a very immaculate and delicate style. I have not experienced it with the regen but I drive very slowly and sensibly. I let idiot ice drivers go around me. I pull over. This car has insane torque and with ice on the road it’s too much if you let it be too much.
My style of winter driving makes it 10x better than my old ice cars. Last year alone w all seasons I had two separate slide and body damage incidents in my 4runner.
I do like the idea of a chill mode cousin of ice mode. I am confident we will see that.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
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