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M3 performance lifetime average Wh per mile

What's the lifetime average wh/mile of your M3P

  • < 250

    Votes: 20 10.4%
  • 251-260

    Votes: 18 9.3%
  • 261-270

    Votes: 18 9.3%
  • 271-280

    Votes: 26 13.5%
  • 281-290

    Votes: 25 13.0%
  • 291-300

    Votes: 26 13.5%
  • 301-310

    Votes: 17 8.8%
  • 311-320

    Votes: 21 10.9%
  • 321-330

    Votes: 9 4.7%
  • 331-340

    Votes: 5 2.6%
  • 341-350

    Votes: 4 2.1%
  • >350

    Votes: 4 2.1%

  • Total voters
    193
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It doesn’t really matter what makes the difference in efficiency as long as it makes the car more efficient.
True, but you said what would make it more efficient is lightweight 18" wheels. I just don't want people going and focusing on wheel weight or size if their goal is higher efficiency, given the wheel is the least important part of that equation.

Just curious why you are so certain it won’t improve performance? There are plenty of tests using smaller lighter wheels and tires that show improvement in performance.

I expect it to get me about .1 seconds 0-60 mph and .2 seconds in the 1/4 mile. .1 seconds would get me under 3.0 seconds for 0-60 mph with rollout subtracted. .2 seconds would get me down to 11.2 for the 1/4 mile. If that happens I would consider those worthwhile improvements.

Physics.
A M3P with a driver weighs about 4,450 lbs. To get this to 60 MPH requires at least 725,000J of energy for the mass of the car, plus another 2,000J for the rotating wheel/tires per corner. Add a bit for air drag, let's say 750,000J to get to 60 MPH.

750,000J over 3.0 seconds is 250,000 J/s (aka 250Kw). A pretty reasonable average for what a M3P can put out between 0-60 MPH.

So let's take 250Kw and ask if you apply it for 2.9s, how many J you get. It's 725,000. 25K less.

But wait... The WHOLE 50lb stock tire/wheel assembly is only ~16Kj when you factor in 4 wheels in both rotational and kinetic energy.

That's right, you need to literally get to negative weight on the wheels/tires to reduce from 3.0 to 2.9.

Those videos above? They change the tire diameter also. You can see it so clearly on the Y. If what you want is 0-60, a shorter tire will help, but it will eventually hurt you at higher speeds in the 1/4.

This has been tested and discussed before:
 
I will post my data when I get the wheels. These aren’t just lighter wheels they are 18” wheels instead of the 20s. I think it may be a bigger difference than you think.

There are other threads here about that topic, if you are expecting "lighter wheel = faster" you are likely to be disappointed. Now, handling or something is different. In any case, this thread is / was about lifetime wh/mi, not about lighter wheels, so I am going to encourage (and by encourage I mean "with my moderator hat on") that discussion in another thread.

im not going to move discussions about lighter wheels above this post of mine, but would encourage the discussion in another thread.

I was going to say that @gearchruncher was pretty knowledgable about this topic, but they already beat me to it in their reply.
 
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There are other threads here about that topic, if you are expecting "lighter wheel = faster" you are likely to be disappointed. Now, handling or something is different. In any case, this thread is / was about lifetime wh/mi, not about lighter wheels, so I am going to encourage (and by encourage I mean "with my moderator hat on") that discussion in another thread.

im not going to move discussions about lighter wheels above this post of mine, but would encourage the discussion in another thread.

I was going to say that @gearchruncher was pretty knowledgable about this topic, but they already beat me to it in their reply.
Sorry I didn’t mean to derail the conversation. I should have expounded on my initial statement.

For the record I should have said that I believe a smaller diameter and lighter wheel with lighter tires should improve my acceleration because of rotational inertia. In addition I believe the fact that the smaller diameter tire will have a much smaller tread width that should improve efficiency to some degree. I am looking to improve my lifetime efficiency down below the already decent 268 Wh/mi that I am currently seeing.

The Engineering Explained video demonstrates why these tires could be more efficient despite them having essentially the same footprint on paper. I am switching to the same setup that he used in that video. The biggest difference is that I am coming from the 20” Uberturbine wheels where he was coming from the 20” Sport wheels. It is possible that I see even more benefit than he did.
 
It's over 105 this weekend in North Dallas, and my drives haven't used less than 400wh/m. It's my first summer with the M3P, and a ~25 mi trip yesterday used up 30% of battery - first time I've had range anxiety.
I work with someone in the bay area right near Tesla who loves the range indicator on their Tesla, says it's all you ever need, it's super accurate, best thing ever.
I drove 100 miles this weekend leaving with 98% SoC and the nav said I would arrive at 68%. I arrived with 50%.
 
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It's over 105 this weekend in North Dallas, and my drives haven't used less than 400wh/m. It's my first summer with the M3P, and a ~25 mi trip yesterday used up 30% of battery - first time I've had range anxiety.


Dang that seems excessive.

Last summer it was hitting 110F here inland in California. And I drove a full 2021 Model 3 Performance (4 total occupants) 50 miles. Traffic always sucks around here, so ot was stop and go in many places. IIRC the entire time the car cabin wouldn't get below 75F because of the heat blasting through the roof, and the AC was running non stop. Even then that trip was comfortably less than 400 wh/m.
 
284 wh/mi lifetime.

Caveat: I have a Stealth version, (so 18" wheels, and probably 50/50 I run aero covers)

1655104745909.png
 
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Dang that seems excessive.

Last summer it was hitting 110F here inland in California. And I drove a full 2021 Model 3 Performance (4 total occupants) 50 miles. Traffic always sucks around here, so ot was stop and go in many places. IIRC the entire time the car cabin wouldn't get below 75F because of the heat blasting through the roof, and the AC was running non stop. Even then that trip was comfortably less than 400 wh/m.
I think the stop and go really helps - the regen makes a much bigger difference. I had stretches of highway mileage in my drive and that didn't do me any favors.
 
I think the stop and go really helps - the regen makes a much bigger difference. I had stretches of highway mileage in my drive and that didn't do me any favors.
It is a misconception that regen helps. Regen isn’t lossless. Maintaining a consistent average speed is always the most efficient. However, regen is so much more efficient than using friction brakes that it is often mistaken for the most efficient way to drive.

Coasting is actually more efficient than regen braking for a given average speed. However, coasting to a stop isn’t practical so regen becomes the better option in reality.

I am getting fairly decent highway efficiency using the S3XY buttons to disable regen on highway sections where downhills allow me to maintain my average speed while coasting with my 2022 Model 3 Performance with the 20” UberHeavy wheels.

5573BBA2-6AC8-4243-8918-C991909523FC.jpeg
 
It is a misconception that regen helps. Regen isn’t lossless. Maintaining a consistent average speed is always the most efficient. However, regen is so much more efficient than using friction brakes that it is often mistaken for the most efficient way to drive.
The other thing that misleads people is that places where you end up using regen a lot is in the city, but the efficiency comes from lower overall speed as well, not the stopping. Yes, 30 MPH with a bunch of stop and go using regen is way more efficient than 55 MPH, but 30 MPH with no stop and go at all would be even that more efficient than 30 MPH with stops.

Look at the people that set range records in Model 3's- they all did it at about 25 MPH with no AC on and no stopping:
 
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Dang that seems excessive.

Last summer it was hitting 110F here inland in California. And I drove a full 2021 Model 3 Performance (4 total occupants) 50 miles. Traffic always sucks around here, so ot was stop and go in many places. IIRC the entire time the car cabin wouldn't get below 75F because of the heat blasting through the roof, and the AC was running non stop. Even then that trip was comfortably less than 400 wh/m.
Was your M3P windows ceramic tinted (including the sunroof and windshield? All my Texas vehicles get full ceramic tint, that reduces the load on the AC in temps above 100 and also the optional sunroof shades help a lot. That will reduce your consumption.
 
Nice! Was that on an oval, with no throttle lift? Certainly doesn’t look like it. What was top speed during that run?
Do you daily too or just track it? 506 over 7k is impressive! I apologize if I missed it but how many miles total do you have?
Autocross. That's less than 70% of the distance on the power. It's just that it averages energy use on like a 1/3 mile bin, so you can't see any detail. That's actually a bunch of 1 minute runs with 5+ minutes inbetween, but it's by distance, not time, so none of that shows up. I've done the math and it's actually 2500+ wh/mi when on track. Top speed is about 90 MPH, and I actually slow down from 90 to zero almost all through regen, which is where it reduces down to ~1,500.
Daily drive it, about 20K total miles, but only 7k on my trip odometer due to Tesla fully resetting my car at some point.
 
Coming up on my 4-year anniversary of receiving my 2018 P3D stealth.
Just 23k miles, and lifetime avg wh/m is 274. That's on the stock 18" wheels without the aero covers.

That seems like pretty good efficiency considering I still have a pretty heavy right foot.

I keep thinking about trading for a MYP to hold me over until my Cybertruck is ready.... but I keep thinking of even more reasons just to stay in my current car which has FSD beta enabled.
 
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