Yeah but now even elon admits he was wrong. Guys who work in tech are often too idealistic in what tech can do and how easily/reliably it can do it. That's how you get mistakes like the phone key.
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M3 Tear Down by Munro & Associates. Pictures By Motor Trend
- Thread starter Tomski
- Start date
Yeah, I meant that while they would have hired more people, they went from hundreds of cars per week to thousands per week from late 2017 until recently, so it's quite likely that the human labor hours per vehicle has dropped - or rather, the amount of wasted human time waiting on the next vehicle due to a bottleneck in the production line has likely gone way down, such that the amount of human hours divided by cars produced should have decreased significantly even if they hired more people. Less standing around, more doing.
In regards to the large amounts of body sealant: Tesla uses lots of sealant in the Model S as well (and I presume the X), as it cuts down on creaks and squeaks. Early design and engineering interviews about the Model S talked about how aluminum unibodies were prone to creaking, and that it was usually fixed with additional welds, but the Model S presented extra challenges because of the lack of drivetrain noise/vibration to mask the creaks of the body. So not only did the model S have additional welds compared to a traditional steel car, but at some point (I think late 2013 or early 2014) they started adding additional sealant to further cut down on creaks. Seems like they chose a similar strategy with the 3, which seems to have less complaints of squeaks and creaks than early Model S.
Brando
Active Member
For those interested in manufacturing, you will probably find this site very interesting - particularly his recent 5 month visit to Japan where he visits most of the automakers. I found very interesting - much more variety between all these companies than I would have ever imagined.
AllAboutLean.com – Organize your Industry
AllAboutLean.com – Organize your Industry
I'm unfamiliar with the 1960's Corvair concepts and I only know a little bit about the EV1 (though I remember reports that the lessees loved them). But the Model 3 (originally named the model E) was announced years before the Chevy Bolt came to market. GM saw the success that Tesla was having with the S & X and knew the model E/3 was on the horizon so they jumped into the game with the Bolt. They've been building cars for a century so it makes sense that that they're much better, or at least more experienced, at building cars so it's no surprise that they were able to beat the Tesla Model 3 to market.
While all reports are that the Bolt is a good car, it's still got the look of a compliance car = boring (IMO). I've always been annoyed that manufacturers (before Tesla) seemed to believe that anyone who cared about the environment didn't like cars. The Prius always pissed me off for this reason. I am a big Toyota fan for their consistent reliability and I loved the technology of the hybrid (obviously a lot of other people did too) but the Prius is about the ugliest, most boring car on the road (again... IMO). Why couldn't they have at least made it look like a Camry or something else that, while a little boring, didn't scream smugly: "I CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT MORE THAN YOU... SO MUCH MORE THAT I'M WILLING TO DRIVE THIS UGLY, BORING PRIUS!"
Tesla is the first manufacturer that gives me the impression that they understand that people can be car enthusiasts AND care about the environment. Their cars are not boring compliance cars. They are sexy, competitive sport sedans that happen to also be electric. Nobody is comparing the Chevy Bolt to a BMW 3 series but that's one of the most common comparisons that I've seen about the Model 3. So, yes, GM can claim the title of having the first <$40,000 EV with over 200 miles range but it's more of a full electric competitor to the Prius rather than the aforementioned Bimmer.
Sorry for the rant. I hope I didn't come off preachy or negative (your original post was very polite). I guess I have a little bit of a nerve when the Bolt is compared to the Model 3. I get that wasn't your point... simply that GM was first.
Found the summary report in PDF here:
http://leandesign.com/pdf/Tesla-3-Analysis-Sales-Information.pdf
http://leandesign.com/pdf/Tesla-3-Analysis-Sales-Information.pdf
Regarding inherent lack of understanding of the product:
So they dropped $10k for the SW on a car they then tore apart, guess they didn't know the HW comes on all cars...
Chances are they bought these second hand from someone for well more than the going rate, actually. So they likely didn't have a choice in options other than the people willing to part with their cars' choices. It's likely how they ended up with such a low VIN / early build date, as I doubt they had anyone stand in line much less were an existing owner.
If so, this was actually a pretty excellent deal for whomever sold them the cars, since they get their money back and then some and can then just wait for a better built car, as apparently they had such bad build quality that they made a big deal about it...
If so, this was actually a pretty excellent deal for whomever sold them the cars, since they get their money back and then some and can then just wait for a better built car, as apparently they had such bad build quality that they made a big deal about it...
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
I didn't read it that way. They indicated the car was a premium model with autopilot and in parenthesis said that costs $10K. LR battery costs $9K, premium package $5K, FSD if it was purchased with that, $3K, so yeah, around $10,000.
Also the statement that it has hardware for autopilot but it is not yet functional is not incorrect if they are referring to FSD.
You could be right. The way they referred to it made me think they were taking FSD (not functional), which also requires EAP (4k+6k post delivery = 10k) I hadn't checked the number before posting. But it could very well be 5k interior + 5k EAP = 10k. (neglecting 9k in battery upgrade).
As @BioSehnsucht said, the ESP may not have been their choice, and they picked the car up from someone else.
Brando
Active Member
Munro pleaded on Autoline After Hours - the Chevy Bolt tear down show - for people to contact him so he could buy Model 3.
AND in the Autoline Model 3 tear down show - Munro admits to buying from an owner - HE DID NOT BUY FROM TESLA DIRECT.
Notice he makes no comments about "buying experience" - we know McRat will tell us just how bad the Tesla buying experience and how wonderfully he has always been treated by car dealers - yes, you mileage may vary.
Brando
Active Member
I should have tagged as sarcastic - sorry for confusion - With all those first, why can't GM offer good, no great BEV. And check out this about Toyota hybrids
Toyota has now sold 10 million hybrids in 20 years, globally
I have checked all the panels and fit on my April 2018 model 3, and they are actually better fit than my neighbors 2017 BMW M3. I used a calibrated micrometer to make the measurements.
Safe to say, both cars were built exceptionally well.
Also, I am okay with my car having a couple hundred pounds more weight. Anyone who’s driven a 3 or S will agree the heavy and low car with that much power makes for a great vehicle that’s fun to drive and performs incredibly.
Anyone who is hating the model 3 should go see a new one. I’d like to see someone check out my Model 3 and have anything bad to say about it’s fit/finish.
Safe to say, both cars were built exceptionally well.
Also, I am okay with my car having a couple hundred pounds more weight. Anyone who’s driven a 3 or S will agree the heavy and low car with that much power makes for a great vehicle that’s fun to drive and performs incredibly.
Anyone who is hating the model 3 should go see a new one. I’d like to see someone check out my Model 3 and have anything bad to say about it’s fit/finish.
Yeah, there may be some hubris but I think the bigger driver was getting to market faster. Musk is rushing for several reasons: to bring in cash and revenues sooner; to deliver cars to the 400,000 plus reservations earlier; and to force the rest of the industry to react and bring EVs to market as quickly as possible.
If Munro had looked at the 2017 Model 3 he cut apart as a pre-production model he might have had a somewhat different take on the potential success of the car. Because that’s essentially what early buyers were getting. And since then the cars have rapidly improved. By controlling their own sales and service (and direct data feeds from the cars) Tesla has a tighter feedback loop for improvement.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
Does Tesla refer to December 2017 build cars as 'pre-production'? No? I didn't think so. Tesla started production of this model in July of 2017. By December I think it would be really difficult to argue that these were not full production models. According to Tesla the JULY ones were "final production".
For your argument to hold any water at all you'd have to call out the numerous differences in the hardware between a December build car and one being built in the factory now.
Well for one we know current cars no longer come with the "fluff" on top of the battery pack.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
Well for one we know current cars no longer come with the "fluff" on top of the battery pack.
Actually musk said that the fluff was now being installed by humans because the “fluffer” robot was inefficient and doing a crappy job.
jelloslug
Active Member
The best way to sum this up is that in 25 years, people will talk about the revolutionary car that was the 1st generation Model 3 and as a foot note, mention that the Chevrolet Bolt beat it market by a few months. They will possibly have a picture of the Bolt also so people will know what it looked like.
Nope, he said that they tested a car with and without it and found there was no difference in noise levels in the cabin so they eliminated the fluff altogether.
